General Forum

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

corey986 — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:57:01 GMT

macjonny1:

Dave,

Isn't there issues using active speakers on the rear surround channels with non-B&O receivers/pre-amps, namely that the rear speakers will turn off and on during quiet parts of movies/etc? Have you had any experience with the Lexicon and B&O active speakers?

Well there is a fix to that....

Not sure if this is the place, but High End Pre-Ampls like a Lexicon, Mcintosh or even a AdCom will have a trigger outlet. I actually have a rack mount "box" I built to convert the Balanced Output and trigger to powerlink with special connectors for center and sub which take care of L/R and stuff like that. BTW, the trigger is not just a simple wire splice as the industry standard of 12 volt is not what B&O expects to activate the powerlink, plus you need to do some isolation to prevent any potential noise.

In the past I made special cables for this, but with the Ice Amps, you need a little bit more to prevent noise and now that the relay is done in solid state, you want to protect it more than the older speakers.

Anyway at some point I think I will make these for people on a per-order basis.... Like do you want rca to powerlink or balanced to powerlink with nickel transformers to warm up the sound a bit.

It is nice to be able to use my B&O 7.1 speaker setup and a professional quality pre-amp processor. The B&O one is nice but for the same price you can get a Mcintosh which is in a completely different league or just spend a couple of thousand US or Euros and get something as good as or even better than the B&O one.

Cheers,

Corey

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Beobuddy — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:41 GMT

closeup :

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Beobuddy — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:38 GMT

And here the result so far.

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

macjonny1 — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:54:49 GMT

Thanks Dave that helps a lot!

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Dave Moulton — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:26:43 GMT

I've never used the Lexicon, so I can't speak to it. However, In my studio EVERYTHING except speakers is non-B&O. And yes, muting is an occasional nuisance on the BeoLab 3s being driven by a Yamaha mixing console. Fortunately, the lag is long enough that during almost all program material there is no muting, just when I stop playback for a discussion with a client.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

macjonny1 — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:20:14 GMT

Dave,

Isn't there issues using active speakers on the rear surround channels with non-B&O receivers/pre-amps, namely that the rear speakers will turn off and on during quiet parts of movies/etc? Have you had any experience with the Lexicon and B&O active speakers?

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Dave Moulton — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:58:10 GMT

Whoa! What a cool setup you propose! A single BL9 for a center with BL5s Left and Right will work extremely well for both film and music! I'd put the BL3s as side speakers.

For 7.1, I'd buy a Lexicon processor with Logic 7, which is a really nice algorithm for deriving steering between side and rear from just the surround signal. The result is extremely effective for both film and music – I've auditioned it a fair amount, both in home theaters and cars, and like it a lot.

You are going to have one awesome home theater!

Best regards,

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Beobuddy — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:46:45 GMT

For the mentioned reason I'm already experimenting for the last 2-3 months.

I first ordered the BV9 speakers (and wooden box) and experimented with several amplifiers, but ended with the original BV9 ICE amplifier.

Unfortunatly I couldn't mount the mid/bass speaker a bit higher. This has to do with the inside (electronic) chassis.

When I upgrade to a BS3, I will have lots of space and will be able to place the mid/bass speaker in its original wooden case just beneath the tweeter.

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Jez — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 03:31:03 GMT

I find it odd that B&O don't make a centre channel to suite a plasma on table stand. The table stand for BL7-2 would be great if it didn't sit higher than the cabinet stand for the BV4 and block the bottom of the screen.

Question: Currently I have BV4/BS3 with BL5's front, BL9's rear and a pair of BL3's centre (mono). Once I setup a dedicated theatre room in my next humble abode and wall mount my screen what centre would you go for? I was thinking BL9 (think you can purchase as a single). This would leave me with a pair of BL3's that I could set up 7.1 with. So my second question is, Is there an advantage to this as movies are encoded as 5.1 and there would only be one row of seating? Also would the BL3's be better as the side or back speakers?

Cheers

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

saf — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:24:38 GMT

Dave Moulton:

I hope this helps.

It does (I hope also to the original poster and others wondering) and as always is a pleasure to have you here, Dave.

I can only say that I have basically (rather unsurprisingly) the same experience with my BV5.

Good it has a motorised stand (and I can sometimes be alone with it ).

One can't really disagree with the rest of your post, I guess.

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Puncher — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:37:06 GMT

I would think that for 5.1 listening a lens based speaker makes good sense because of their horizontal dispersion charateristic and therefore a 7.4 is a better option than the stereo "bar" 7's. If however you have the TV set up as a "stand alone" TV then the stereo 7.1, 7.2 or 7.6 makes more sense. Playing stereo audio through your stand alone TV would obviously also benefit from the latter types.

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

macjonny1 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:56:58 GMT

Very interesting responses and not as uniform as I'd expect! The observations that led me to ask in the first place were: People using (and even shown on B&O literature) a pair of BL4000s as a center before the 7-series came out when they could very well have gotten rid of one and just mounted one BL4000.

Also, the fact that the newer 7.1, 7.2, and 7.6 are really stereo speakers that are commonly used in mono as a center. To me this is akin to using a pair of speakers in mono, although obviously the housing can make a difference.

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Dave Moulton — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:45:36 GMT

Good question!

I can only speak to experience with the Avant (I have one set up with 4 BL3s and a BL2, normal home theatre).

Answer: yes, I am troubled by interference effects of the stereo pair of the Avant. By "aiming" the Avant precisely, I can get the summation to be pretty good for ONE angle, but for other viewers off axis it deteriorates quite noticeably. You can audition this by setting the system to 1 speaker and then rotating the stand while auditioning. You will notice both the change in HF response and the comb filtering as the speakers rotate.

The Avant preceded the 5.1 world slightly, and was obviously designed as a stand-alone stereo system. This "center channel" summation is clearly a compromise (a wise one, in my opinion) to keep from rendering Avants obsolete.

5.1 is a very quirky and demanding format, and the center channel is particularly difficult, for a variety of reasons, including the sort of problem that the Avant presents.

Can I live with it? Obviously, yes. Can I enjoy movies and music over the system? Yes. Can I hear the problems? Yes.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

saf — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:35:46 GMT

Dave Moulton:
I would definitely argue against having two center speakers.

So, Dave, would one have to conclude from what you are saying that B&O didn't get it quite right with eg Avant, BV5, BV7 and also BV10 etc? Or perhaps more precisely, that their TVs with two speakers (and a surround sound module) were/are a compromise in order to make it on the one hand possible to reproduce stereo as a stand alone equipment, and on the other hand - indeed, not optimally - feature as a central speaker in a full surround sound setup as well?

Re: Why have a pair of center speakers?

Dave Moulton — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:37:59 GMT

Based on my experiments and study of surround sound, I would definitely argue against having two center speakers. The gain in power is only 3 dB, and the potential interference effects for the various listeners are substantial.

The center channel is a very special channel for cinema, and needs to be treated with care.

I hope this helps.

Best regards