General Forum

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

vikinger — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:37:11 GMT

Puncher:

Earlier I mentioned socio-political reasons for maintaining a manufacturing industry. An interesting side question that arises is -

Is a publicly traded company's primary responsibility to it's shareholders or it's customers?

Doesn't really matter. In the long run if customers are not satisfied, shareholders will be left with a valueless company. If shareholders take short-term advantage, customers will walk away. Same outcome. Danger lies in asset stripping following a take-over, and long-term badge engineering.

Graham

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

vikinger — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:22:07 GMT

elephant:

Which is the 51st state ?

Australia ?

Liverpool's US links made it known long ago as the 51st State. This film adopted the name, but it's renaming for the US market suggests that the Liverpool connection wasn't recognised elsewhere!

Graham

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

Russ — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:26:15 GMT

linder:

Russ:

linder:

After all is a BMW assembled in Alabama not a German car?

Actually Linder, a BMW assembled in Alabama is a Mercedes-Benz. BMW's US plant is in South Carolina.

oops! You're right. I did get those mixed up. Now it is even better point to make!

Quite alright Linder...it does indeed help to move the discussion along.

I find this thread amusing, and as mentioned earlier, rather self-defeating. At the same time it is ironic, what with the 'how to save B&O thread' running along elsewhere on this site as well.

It seems to me that high-end, boutique manufacturers trade on their established reputation, no matter how or why it was established. When one makes a purchase from one of these manufacturers, most...I stress 'most'...customers trust the reputation and willingly take the Wizard of Oz's advice and ignore 'the man behind the curtain.' If I am looking for a Burberry Trench-coat (someone else brought them up earlier) I expect the Burberry shop in the Galleria to confidently tell me that this coat traces it's heritage back to WW-II when the British Army commissioned "us" to create a new, blah, blah, blah...and this coat is made with the same quality and care, blah, blah, blah.... I accept that or I don't. I want the Burberry, not the cheap knock-off...because I WANT it. Perhaps it's because I can actually tell that the materials are superior, perhaps I just want the label, perhaps I am an Anglophile. The point is that I choose to trust that Burberry is still making coats as they always have. I don't need the garment bag, I'll just wear it on my way to the car, thanks! Burberry was founded in the 1850's, and was last a privately held company in the 1950's. What remains of its essential Burberry-ness, except it's reputation, integrity, and commitment?

No matter how hard you try, you can not purchase a used BMW Z-3 which was not built by a bunch of red-neck hicks in the Southern US. Sorry, there are no 'German' ones. A new X-3, or X-5? A roll of the dice, as they build a lot of those for international markets, right there in my home-town, Spartanburg, SC. Do BMW customers care? Aficionados? Snobs? Well, OK...maybe those last ones. BMW built the factory, trained the workers, certifies the quality, and offers the same warranty, regardless of country of origin. BMW confidently faces their customers, and states that every one of these is a 'real' BMW, because we say it is. Any of this sound familiar?

TWG, I think you are seeing the discussion backward...my contention is that if B&O had not begun 10 years ago to move some operations to CZ, those products made there would cost more than they do now...not as you seem to imply, that B&O has been cheating and holding prices (and those missing profits) artificially high. What might a BV-8 cost, if it were assembled as a 'finished product' in DK, and therefore almost certainly subject to a higher VAT? Higher costs (including taxes) can't save a company.

As an aside, my family really does live in the same county in South Carolina as BMW MFG/USA. BMW have been there for 15 years or so, have created several thousand local jobs, and enthusiastically support the community. My brother refuses to consider purchasing a BMW because it isn't an 'American' car. He'd rather buy a Chrysler or General Motors product and give jobs to Canada, Mexico and Brazil, because the profits (at least until recently), came back to the US. Go figure.

What is a 'German' car anymore, or a 'Danish' stereo?

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

linder — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:47:07 GMT

Russ:

linder:

After all is a BMW assembled in Alabama not a German car?

Actually Linder, a BMW assembled in Alabama is a Mercedes-Benz. BMW's US plant is in South Carolina.

oops! You're right. I did get those mixed up. Now it is an even better point to make!

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

Russ — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:18:44 GMT

linder:

After all is a BMW assembled in Alabama not a German car?

Actually Linder, a BMW assembled in Alabama is a Mercedes-Benz. BMW's US plant is in South Carolina.

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

cooldude — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:16:41 GMT

saf:

cooldude:
Also, most items that B&O have had produced elsewhere have never been well received or good sellers to start with. (cell phone or mp3 player, anyone ?)

Perhaps, the problem is not with where it was produced but rather that it had been accepted by the HQ - which is in DK(?)

Most of these items where quick-fix items anyways. These products have almost all disappeared now, just as the management in the HQ that marketed them .....

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

saf — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:02:30 GMT

cooldude:
Also, most items that B&O have had produced elsewhere have never been well received or good sellers to start with. (cell phone or mp3 player, anyone ?)

Perhaps, the problem is not with where it was produced but rather that it had been accepted by the HQ - which is in DK(?)

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

cooldude — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:48:05 GMT

Chrisreunion:

20 years ago, the BeoCord VX 7000 had a label stating "designed and engineered in Denmark, assembled in Japan" (by Hitachi).

I never had a problem with it, as long as B&O don't manufacture in China..

Why should B&O be the only ones to blame? B&W make all their ICE-powered subwoofers in China, the PV1 costs EUR 1500, the BeoLab 2 almost twice as much, now you know why..

Peugeot assemble their "French" cars in Italy, Renault in Spain, Michelin makes tyres in Asia, it's called globalization, B&O took longer to follow the trend, but at least they still keep the preference to Europe, and I'm more than happy with it. Making profit is pure economics, B&O is not the Red Cross

When talking Peugot. Renault etc ... is like comparing sony, panasonic and philips to B&O.... a bit unfair.

Ferrari is still building all of there cars in Italy, right ? (well I hope so, anyways).

If the BV8 indeed is assembled in Taiwan (to B&O standards), at least it's more or less reflected in the price.
And honestly on items that cost more than 10.000$, the labor cost is only a minor factor and would not make a big difference in final revenue.
Also, most items that B&O have had produced elsewhere have never been well received or good sellers to start with. (cell phone or mp3 player, anyone ?)

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

Chrisreunion — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:03:29 GMT

20 years ago, the BeoCord VX 7000 had a label stating "designed and engineered in Denmark, assembled in Japan" (by Hitachi).

I never had a problem with it, as long as B&O don't manufacture in China..

Why should B&O be the only ones to blame? B&W make all their ICE-powered subwoofers in China, the PV1 costs EUR 1500, the BeoLab 2 almost twice as much, now you know why..

Peugeot assemble their "French" cars in Italy, Renault in Spain, Michelin makes tyres in Asia, it's called globalization, B&O took longer to follow the trend, but at least they still keep the preference to Europe, and I'm more than happy with it. Making profit is pure economics, B&O is not the Red Cross

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

saf — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:49:06 GMT

j0hnbarker:

mbee:

Denmark & Czech Republic is the same country: Europe!

Ouch! Not on this side of the Channel it isn't!

A catastrophic megaflood separated Britain from Europe (France, specifically) hundreds of thousands of years ago, changing the course of British history, according to research ... and, nowadays, don't even the Britain's wheather forcasters keep on saying: 'Europe will continue to be separated from Britain by a thick fog'?

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

alenvprekrsku — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:06:37 GMT

elephant:

Which is the 51st state ?

Australia ?

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

elephant — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:58:09 GMT

Which is the 51st state ?

Australia ?

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

alenvprekrsku — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:52:52 GMT

j0hnbarker:

mbee:

Denmark & Czech Republic is the same country: Europe!

Ouch! Not on this side of the Channel it isn't!

Great Britain is probably more American (52nd) than an European Union country.

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

j0hnbarker — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:21:03 GMT

mbee:

Denmark & Czech Republic is the same country: Europe!

Ouch! Not on this side of the Channel it isn't!

Re: The MADE IN DENMARK product thread :-)

mbee — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:53:41 GMT

I don't see any problem at all. Even if you are a little bit protectionist, you have to understand that Czech Republic is TOTALLY EQUAL to Denmark, or Germany, or France : it's EUROPE!!! (I don't speak about product quality, this topic itself proves that there is no visible difference between products made in cz or dk)

Come on guys, you're thinking that stopping buying cz products will help your country : ok, do that, stop buying everything made in cz rep. What will happen? cz rep will not develop itself, the strong inegalities between european countries will stay... And Denmark will... Continue to give a LARGE amount of money (as other wealthy european countries) to cz rep...

So what do you prefer? An equal Europe with the same average wage, or an inequal europe with poor countries living with money from other countries?

I understand protectionism against China or the like, where we do not exactly understand where our money goes (not to the workers, but to the government...), but against an other european country!! Come on, we're in 2010, and there are still wealthy people here that doesn't understand Europe???

Denmark & Czech Republic is the same country: Europe!