General Forum

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

wonderfulelectric — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:13:54 GMT

mecca:
I had my 8000's serviced. They all talked about upgrading amplifiers, for improved base response. If I wanted true audiophile equipment, i would have purchased other brands. I love the sound and the look of BnO, so we're outfitting a 800meter penthouse with it. There is clearly nothing like it. As for improved base, we added 2 powered (500rms) subs of audiophile quality and actually back the bass down from flat a bit so even at high levels the pentas and 8000's never see any distortion.
IMHO, no matter what you do to the amps of any speaker with limited internal volume and without tons of sound damping wood, it just is limited (especially in bass).

You do not need lots of sound damping wood for lots of bass, in fact you should you as rigid a material as possible and as little as possible. I agree that bass needs more internal volume. However, they can just simply make it into a three way and with many bass drivers. It is an active design so they can squeeze as many bass drivers they like with little volume. Speaking of hign-end audio, look at www.goldmund.com, they use gold bars and everything. Very extreme luxury and a bit wasteful since there is a point where higher costs yields diminishing returns.

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

joeyboygolf — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 03:18:13 GMT

Peter:

Actually I agree in a way with 355f! I suppose I would define the looks as more than just that - ergonomics would come into it - but the vast majority of B&O equipment can be outperformed by cheaper products from other manufacturers.
Whether these products will last as long or be built from such good materials is another matter of course.
I am quite happy to admit that the major reason I buy B&O is the splendid looks and user interface. I would not buy it if it didn't sound good as well but that is not the be all and end all for me.
I know we can quote the Beolab 5 and indeed Beolab 5000 system or Beolab 8000 system as examples of good sounding equipment, but to be fair, these were not and are not the big sellers. In 1980, there were two similar receivers - the 2400/1900 and the 2200. Apart from a few people like me, who remembers the 2200? But it blows the 1900 away from a performance point of view! Didn't sell that well in comparison though as it lacked the touch sensitive buttons and swoopier styling! I bought the 2400 for the very reasons I have given - and I bet I wasn't the only one!

I absolutely agree with all these very wise words from Peter except I bought the Beomaster 1900 as my first piece of B&O (in 1979 I think) followed in 1986 by the Beocenter 9000.

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Alex — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:31:51 GMT

darioazul:
Dear All:

So, what is the 'best' or 'better' placement of the BL 8000? How far apart should they be from say BS 9000?
How far from wall?

Dario

I would try and keep them about a foot and a half away from the wall if possible, and move them back if you find they lack in bass, rather than turning on the loudness. I find when you do this, they bass becomes confused and OTT with (particularly) the BeoLab 8000s. They should ideally be placed slightly less distance apart than the distance between you and the speakers themselves...

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Frank Rizzo — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:05:02 GMT

I had my 8000's serviced. They all talked about upgrading amplifiers, for improved base response. If I wanted true audiophile equipment, i would have purchased other brands. I love the sound and the look of BnO, so we're outfitting a 800meter penthouse with it. There is clearly nothing like it. As for improved base, we added 2 powered (500rms) subs of audiophile quality and actually back the bass down from flat a bit so even at high levels the pentas and 8000's never see any distortion.

IMHO, no matter what you do to the amps of any speaker with limited internal volume and without tons of sound damping wood, it just is limited (especially in bass).

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Beolab — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:22:45 GMT

wonderfulelectric:
First rule of product promotion. To outmode your own products before competitors do. Beolab 8000 have bad noise level and compresses during full blown orchestra and that is during normal sane levels. The compression wasn't subtle, it was very obvious and was in the midrange. I know because I lived with a pair. Besides doing that upgrade will definitely lower production costs, not to mention shipping and a greener environment etc...

Hm...

Where the BL8000 upgraded with the latest update? (2004-)

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

darioazul — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:11:00 GMT

Dear All:

So, what is the 'best' or 'better' placement of the BL 8000? How far apart should they be from say BS 9000?

How far from wall?

Dario

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

cozza — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:08:36 GMT

For the datasheet on the hybrid amplifer module in the Beolab 8000, see here...

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datasheet-pdf/view/41609/SANYO/STK4231V.html

I think it's quite a good match to the design of the speaker. Certainly they don't require anything higher powered, and given that the total harmonic distortion is 0.08% at 100 watts into 8 ohms, and at that power there would be more significant distortion introduced by the breakup and non linearities of the 4 inch woofers, why change it?

For that matter, does anyone know the total harmonic distortion figures of ICE power modules? I wouldn't be surprised if they were quite high, given that they approximate the input signal by high frequency modulation of square waves, filtered by an output inductor.

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Jez — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:36:59 GMT

355 Ferrari: Electronics made by Magnetti Marrelli, brakes made by Brembo, tyres made by Pirreli or Bridgestone, Wheel bearings made in Australia! But I must admit (even being a McLaren fan since I was born) that the 355 is an amazing car in looks, built quality and performance. In that order too because Ferrari would go broke if it didn't look the way does. Just like B&O.

Back to the original post, just buy the BL8000's. Great speaker!

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

cozza — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:09:51 GMT

I'm glad the main point has been covered, several times in fact but for those of you that missed it, ICE amplification is much cheaper to manufacture than conventional types (initial R&D aside of course!). I don't see that reengineering existing products has any benefit to us as consumers, when the main focus of the exercise is to raise the profit margin on an existing product.

Bose has been producing Class D amplifiers for car manufacturers since about 1994, so the technology is in fact quite entrenched. It's only in the last few years that the switching frequency has increased enough to allow full range class D or T amplifiers to be produced.

In new products, such as the BL3 and BL7.x, there is no way you could shoehorn the required multichannel high power amplification into the cabinet using conventional amplifiers. The difference in sound quality is pretty minimal (I think describing the sound of an ICE powered speaker as "cold" is quite amusing!)

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

355f — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:05:14 GMT

the BS3 ( this i agree with) the BL5 well...yes. The BL9 wellI have them , they are a nice speaker but NOT unrivalled for the price! look what one can buy for £5500!! Now when we are talking about superior build, in the past yes, if the continued move of B&O sourcing in China continues then that will no longer be true.

B&O produce more materials and technolgy in house than oyther companies??? where did you get that from. A company like B&O simply cant afford that. They need the basis of another brands product upon which to work there are afew exceptions but NOT MANY. I would say they produce LESS in house than ANY other company/

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Peter — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:00:15 GMT

Don't agree with that! B&O make a niche product. Yes, you can buy better sounding equipment but it won't be made from the same materials and it won't last as long. B&O do make great Hi-Fi , but they also make style icons. And most of it is not repackaged Philips or Hitachi! As with all makes, they use what they can get, but don't confuse components with end products. They use what they regard as the best for the job:

Philips CD104 = Beogram CDX - but with a superior interface. Why? Because the 104 was one of the best there was!

VX5000 - yes , Hitachi based. But find me a Hitachi that did what the VX5000 was capable of - and in a package to match. Designed by B&O.

HX-Pro, ICE amplifiers, ALT technology - all either designed or brought to market by B&O. And don't forget two way communication, Beolink and the first decent tangential tracking turntables.

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Alex — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:54:04 GMT

B&O did go through a rough phase in the 80s where they essentially repackaged other brand gear, the BeoCenter 2200 being an example of this, and it was a really bad time for B&O. However, the same is certainly not true for other products, and generally I would say B&O produce more of the materials and technologies in-house than other companies. Sure some things aren't that great, like the DVD1 (and the DVD2 by the looks of things), but the main products have almost always been of a very high standard of performance. BeoSystem 3 provides the best picture on the market IMO, and the BeoLab 9s and 5s are unrivalled in their respective price ranges. There are other examples in the B&O range that while they may be outperformed by cheaper equipment, cost more for a very good reason - superior build, integration and design!

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

355f — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:28:01 GMT

I love B&O for the style and working in this industry I can buy what I want. B&O manufacturing fantasic hifi for years??? im afraid to say that isnt true, it just isnt!

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

355f — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:09:49 GMT

beologisch:

355f certainly hit a wrong button here ! he's got the sequence completely backwards ! I for one don't buy B&O because of their looks but because of all the other reasons to buy a very good stereo ! try listening to a BL5 e.g. pure sound quality and less looks, but I love them ! Audio means sound first- easy to use and looks second ! and just because B&O is just about the only company to succeed in a beautiful mix, does not mean looks are everything. just for the last few years other companies are discovering looks are important too and trying to follow.

Really!! come on B&O serious audio- been making great audio for years?????????? many of the products were repacked Hitachi or phillips models

B& O make very pretty packaged designs of average ability that look good; ok you can name the BL5 but the SEROUS audio people dont really consider that for various reasons. Its a good effort. I have a BV4 and BS3 and BL9 ect and I love it but for ythe cost of all this I could buy many top end brands that would blow the pants off it in performance terms

Whlist Im pleased one loves the BL5 can you tell me what high end source you are using that B&O produce!!!

Fact is B&O is high street lifestyle brand and the majority buy it for the looks!

Re: Beolab 8000 IEC-Power?

Peter — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:03:39 GMT

Yes, the spell checker didn't like it either! I know what I mean though!