General Forum

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:17:26 GMT

rweber:

Dear Steve,

Hope you can help me on this one. At this moment I have connected 4 Beolabs 6000's to a Teufel Decoderstation 5 (5.1 pre out Dolby and DTS decoder). I don't use the RCA connectors on the Beolab's but the powerlink connectors. On the serial output of a Lintronic (TT455-RT-238) I use the two TTL 5v outputs to turn the Beolabs on and off (1 output is just enough to switch two Beolabs on and off). This works fine but the only reason I still use the Lintronic device is for switching the Beolabs on and off (not for remote control conversion).

This week I ordered a Denon AVR-3311 AV receiver with pre outs. This receiver has also two trigger out outputs of 12V/150ma. I am wondering if I could use these trigger outputs. I thought the Beolabs needs between 4 and 7 Volts tot turn on. Is 12V to much or do the Beolabs have a protection (zener/regulator) in the circuit to lower the voltage? And what about the trigger in respect to the audio ground?

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best regards,

René Weber

Dear Rene,

Personally, I would suggest keeping the Lintronic system (why not make use of some of its extra capabilities as well, now that it is there?). The problem with triggering from the Denon is that the Beolabs will sink the trigger voltage to audio ground, which the Denon is not set up to deal with. At best this may cause noise on the audio channels, at worst it could result in overheating within the amplifier (not good!) unless the output from the Denon is fully isolated (ideally via a relay or optoisolator circuit).

Please don't rely on the Beolabs for circuit protection - whilst they are excellent speakers, their electronics are surprisingly basic.....

Kind regards,

Steve.

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

js — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:57:04 GMT

B&O also have a cable (ref. 6270795, €28, which replaces the older ref. 6270595) in order to connect Beolabs to amplified speaker outputs. Never used this one, though: could anyone who did please advise? Thanks, js

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

rweber — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:34:27 GMT

Dear Steve,

Hope you can help me on this one. At this moment I have connected 4 Beolabs 6000's to a Teufel Decoderstation 5 (5.1 pre out Dolby and DTS decoder). I don't use the RCA connectors on the Beolab's but the powerlink connectors. On the serial output of a Lintronic (TT455-RT-238) I use the two TTL 5v outputs to turn the Beolabs on and off (1 output is just enough to switch two Beolabs on and off). This works fine but the only reason I still use the Lintronic device is for switching the Beolabs on and off (not for remote control conversion).

This week I ordered a Denon AVR-3311 AV receiver with pre outs. This receiver has also two trigger out outputs of 12V/150ma. I am wondering if I could use these trigger outputs. I thought the Beolabs needs between 4 and 7 Volts tot turn on. Is 12V to much or do the Beolabs have a protection (zener/regulator) in the circuit to lower the voltage? And what about the trigger in respect to the audio ground?

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best regards,

René Weber

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

liamomurchu — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:37:37 GMT

Thanks for all the advice.

Based on all the information above..... I need to get an A/V receiver with pre outs so that I can connect up the beolab 6000s.

From your experience what receiver best works with B&O?

Any recommendations?

Cheers

Liam

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

tournedos — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:56:23 GMT

DoubleU:

My guess is that the current it takes from the receiver to feed the trigger of a Beolab is not that much. (not sure though)

But of course you are right, Steve. Do not try this unless you know what you're doing!

In for example the Beolab 8000, the Powerlink power up signal goes first into a 33 kohm serires resistor and from there on to the base of a NPN transistor. So the current needed will be at most 5V / 33k = 0.15 mA, or practically negligible... you could power it from normal AA batteries for over a year!

But the main point still remains that don't go about connecting this and that here and there and watching what happens!

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

DoubleU — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:15:32 GMT

My guess is that the current it takes from the receiver to feed the trigger of a Beolab is not that much. (not sure though)

But of course you are right, Steve. Do not try this unless you know what you're doing!

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:30:06 GMT

Hi DoubleU,

This is a good mod for someone who knows the layout of the circuitry on their own receiver, but not a universal answer for others to try to copy without proper research. The +5v Powerlink trigger voltage needs to be taken with respect to audio ground and many receivers will not cope with their trigger outputs or certain voltage rails sinking to audio ground via an external circuit such as a Beolab speaker.

Hence, I would suggest "Don't try this at home" unless you either:-

A) Know enough about electronics to understand the circuitry inside your receiver, or

B) Have enough money to not care if your receiver goes into meltdown!

By the way, Ralf's situation of having Beolab speakers switching on and off during quiet periods of surround sound use is fairly common. The addition of the Powerlink trigger voltage is the only way to resolve this, but this does not have to be taken from within the receiver. (Good idea though!)

Kind regards,

Steve.

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

DoubleU — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:28:11 GMT

I had a receiver working with the pre-out connected to the powerlink, but did a modification in the receiver. I soldered a wire to the 5V somewhere in the receiver and brought it outside next to the pre-outs. The pre-outs and the 5V goes to the powerlink. The other side of the powerlink to the Beolabs.

Receiver on/off, BL6K green/red. Even when there is no sound, and no clicking sound. Works like a charm.

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

kallasr — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:11:02 GMT

In theory this works, but (at least not for me) not in the real world....

I have a DENON 3806 with pre-outs, but the speakers turning on and off with a clicking sound when the rears don't get any sound for a while in a movie, was not so nice.

Had to cope with humming noises, too.

So, if you have the equipment, do your tests, so did I, but I had to replace the nice active B&O speakers (BL8K/BL6K) with some (passive) ones.

Good luck!

Ralf

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

liamomurchu — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:28:35 GMT

Hi Steve,

Thanks for getting back to me and all your advice. Very much appreciated.

I will see if there is an A/V receiver that has pre out that is a little cheaper than the Denon2310.

any recommendations?

thanks again

Liam

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:27:14 GMT

Hi Liam,

Sorry for the slow reply! The best approach is always to use pre-outs and line cables (ie. the Denon 2310 in this case), as otherwise you will be amplifying the signal, reducing it back down and amplifying it again. The difference in sound quality (to my ears anyway!) is almost inaudible, but you should always aim for the simplest signal path where possible.

The Attenuated Cables were intended as a solution for an "impossible" problem (ie. using Beolab speakers directly with a power amp), but they should be considered as a good workaround rather than the best approach when designing your system.

Kind regards,

Steve.

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

liamomurchu — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 06:38:08 GMT

Hi Steve,

Have you had a chance to look at the above post?

thanks

Liam

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

liamomurchu — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:48:22 GMT

Do you think that there would be a huge difference in the Denon 3210 RCA to 6000 RCA than the Denon 1910 custom made cable?

What I mean here is sound and quality wise

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

liamomurchu — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:42:19 GMT

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the advice.

Regarding the Denon 2310, as it has RCA pre-out sockets, allowing you to drive Beolab 6000 speakers directly in Line mode, would the beolab speakers still require their mains power supply connected?

Regarding the Denon 1910, would the Attenuated Cables have RCA on the beolab speaker end (or Din) and speaker wire (or banana plug) on the Denon end?

Do you think that there would be a huge difference in the Denon 3210 RCA to 6000 RCA than the Denon 1910 custom made cable?

Thanks again.

Regards

Liam

Re: Connect Beolab 6000 to non B&O receiver?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:04:12 GMT

Hi Liam,

The best option is to go for the Denon 2310, as this has RCA pre-out sockets, allowing you to drive Beolab 6000 speakers directly in Line mode (the power output of the amp does not apply in this case, as you are taking the speaker signals before the power amplifier section inside the Denon unit).

The other option would be to go for a system like the cheaper Denon 1910 (which only has passive speaker outputs) and use Attenuated Cables to safely reduce the signals to levels that the Beolab speakers can handle. In this case, the cables can be made to match the power output of the amp that you are using, I would normally build these to match a typical input range of 30 to 120 Watts unless a customer requests otherwise. The output from the cables is equivalent to a volume-controlled pre-out signal, which can then be fed safely into the Beolab 6000's.

The "danger" that I referred to is where people try to connect active speakers such as Beolab 6000 directly to the output terminals of a power amp with "normal" passive speaker cables - this is a good way to send a nice pair of speakers (and possibly their owner) to an early grave...... [:'(]

The Denon's both appear to be good units and they represent good value for money at the moment. If you need any help with cables, please feel free to ask, or just click on my sponsor link below.

Kind regards,

Steve.