General Forum

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

TerryM — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:25:55 GMT

TripEnglish:

TerryM:

In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

I'm guessing it would fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not even sure it would trend toward the PQ of the B&O. The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies. There are also the light sensors and, in the case of the plasmas, a camera that are feeding data back into the system to affect changes to the display on a frame by frame basis. An outboard processor like the Lumagen would yield a better result than the raw hardware, but can't interact with the display hardware as B&O does.

My observation was prompted by the fact that,at face value,the German Magazine test rated the PQ of the Samsung TVs higher than that of the BV7.

I find this surprising given the fact that Samsung TVs are not particularly noted for the quality of their processor's performance with SD,particularly Freeview,sources

I seem to remember someone posting that they felt the SD performance of the BV7Mk4 was inferior to that of the Mk3.

One wonders if the B & O 'closed ecosystem' solution,by it's very nature,leads to compromise.

With an external processor one is able to adjust,and store,settings on an individual input basis,and thus the PQ of the source can be optimised in relation to the connected TV/Monitor.

Does a BS3 permit such a facility either within the User,or Service,menu?

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Puncher — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:02:08 GMT

TripEnglish:

The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies.

Could you explain further.

(btw - I thought the camera on the BV9 only appeared periodically to recalibrate the panel to compensate for the effects of ageing? Also some(most)? of the other manufacturers include ambient light compensation in at least some of their sets).

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

TripEnglish — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:54:59 GMT

TerryM:

In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

I'm guessing it would fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not even sure it would trend toward the PQ of the B&O. The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies. There are also the light sensors and, in the case of the plasmas, a camera that are feeding data back into the system to affect changes to the display on a frame by frame basis. An outboard processor like the Lumagen would yield a better result than the raw hardware, but can't interact with the display hardware as B&O does.

In more in-depth sales presentations I've explained it by comparing Mac to Windows in that Mac offers a better experience because they control more of the ecosystem than Windows & PC hardware mfgrs. It's not necessarily that they possess some supernatural ability to make superb hardware (though I might argue they do), it's that they're willing to take on more responsibility for the total experience.

If Sony or Toshiba was interested in licensing all sorts of chips and circuits, investing in higher quality case materials, and producing products in small batches by skilled and well paid labor, we'd have some competition. But basically we've slowly evolved into the only TV maker doing things like this. To see innovation like this in video you need to look at projectors and not at TVs.

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

TerryM — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:31:05 GMT

In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

-multimedia Robert- — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:41:30 GMT

Puncher:

Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

Hi Puncher,

The also 12/2009 issue tested Samsung 200Hz LCD LED panel UE 40 B 8090. (In Germany 2200 Euro)

Is this promising for BV10?

Regards, Robert

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

TripEnglish — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:37:51 GMT

Puncher:

I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

The BeoSystem 3 chassis features Pixelworks' ImageProcessor & Video Coprocessor. A few of the benefits can be seen here.

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Beolab — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:26:56 GMT

I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score? = The Samsung 9 series

And in the service menu you will se only on BV/-40 MKIII and IV in the picture menu a menu called P W= Pixel Works

Its true.

Regards

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Puncher — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:27:17 GMT

Peter2:

A trip to John Lewis will illustrate this for you!

However I continue to be surprised how a small company like B & O can maintain such an obviously better picture...

P

Have John Lewis started selling B&O???

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Peter2 — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:20:54 GMT

A trip to John Lewis will illustrate this for you!

However I continue to be surprised how a small company like B & O can maintain such an obviously better picture...

Puncher:

Beolab:

But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Puncher — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:59:03 GMT

Beolab:

But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

-multimedia Robert- — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:24:35 GMT

elephant:

Was the sound evaluated wit just the 7.x speaker or were additional speakers (all 7.1 ?) included ?

Do you know which speaker models were evaluated .....

It was tested with BeoLab 7-2. Not with other BL speakers. A few years ago BV7 was tested with BL7-4. PM me if you are interested in those test results. I saved that test magazine for my archive.

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

Beolab — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:17:44 GMT

349 points for image, (max is 415 points.) BV7 in the 40 inch top 4 now for image. Samsung panels have ratings 349 points.

BV7-40 MkIV = Are built around a Samsung panel, but i don´t think the magazine was aware of that? ;)

But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

Regards!

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

ed7 — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:58:10 GMT

I have seen better picture on sd in "just a samsung" ,even the above german test indicated .As for the speaker sound i owned 7-32 could not fault it at the time sound-wise,if b&o release the tv with-out dts-hs oh well what is new with b&o ,hdmi debate come to mind how long before they included it in their sets??!

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

moxxey — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:31:42 GMT

ed7:

No one questioned the sound quality on the bv7 before imho,but some say it is much improved picture from earlier models, i have seen the latest bv7-40 i still not good enough

Completely wrong. The picture on the BV7-40 is *outstanding* as long as the source is outstanding. This is the key point most people seem to overlook. The problem with the BV7-40 MKIV is that it displays everything 'as is'. If the video source is poor, the BV7-40 will make it look even more poor, IMHO. People don't understand that watching a poor SD picture on your BV7-40 will just result in a poor picture. They somehow expect the picture to be 'enhanced'. Don't really know what they are expecting, in all fairness. Unrealistic.

However, watch a well produced Blu-ray and it's difficult to better the picture.

BTW, the audio is very much questionable on the BV7-40 MKIV and we've debated it a lot on there - B&O released a Blu-ray TV without support for DTS-HS, which is the audio format of choice for most modern Blu-ray discs.

Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

moxxey — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:28:15 GMT

-multimedia Robert-:

The new BV7-40 with internal Blu Ray disc player is tested in German VIDEO/HomeVision magazine issue 12/2009. BV7 in the top 4 LCD 40 inch for image quality.

The results:
75 points for sound. New sound rating for the testers, max scale 60 points changed to 75 points!

I assuming that they didn't test a DTS-HD Blu-ray? :)