General Forum

Re: B&O sales staff

Peter — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 02:53:33 GMT

Very silly. You are clearly a good customer and a repeat one. If they did not make it clear that installation would cost, I don't think they can sensibly charge you later. I hope you get on better with your new dealer. Maybe you you need to talk to Lee!

Re: B&O sales staff

vlohjr1 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:51:36 GMT

I don't normally rant in fact I don't normally post much and very much enjoy reading comments form other members.

B&O UK headquarters service is woeful. You are put through to some staff who cannot be bothered to show any interest and help. Any technical problem, all they do is email to Gloucester and do not chase up. I have a BC2 which somehow plays DVD but when trying to load CDs the CD slips from the mechanism as the wings close. Any body heard of this before?

Splashed out on a pair of Beolab 9 in a West Sussex store. Since it opened in 2001, I have bought countless things (BV5, Lab2, BV7, BC2, BV6) over the years and was fiercely loyal to the local shop. Gota good discount on lab9, after installation (which I expect to be free) got charged £300 for installation as the discount implies self installation (which I have never experienced before). I refused to pay, the manager called me during worktime to hassle me and I ended up having a shouting match with him. I am afraid this completely spoiled my buying experience of the lab 9.

In this economic climate, companies like this cannot survive. Awful.........

Re: B&O sales staff

moxxey — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:59:50 GMT

ed7:

I heard a rumor the next stage is ordering B&O merchandise directly from Denmark with few regional offices scattered in the UK??!!

No, this is in place now. It's simply that every store order is placed directly with Struer directly and then shipped to the store. No stock in-store. No 'middleman'. This can mean that some products take longer to reach the store but, in my experience, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. Two weeks from ordering in-store?

Re: B&O sales staff

linder — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:19:14 GMT

If I were to do a custom installation of home theater and audio, I wouldn't choose Bang & Olufsen products. I would probably choose the custom install option from Bowers and Wilkins in which everything is hidden. Because the TV panel would be less expensive, I would change it every time a better one is available. One would always have the latest TV panel.

However I am more interested in music than TV. If I didn't have B&O, I would probably choose a higher end audiophile system. This system wouldn't exactly have the design qualities of B&O but it could come close.

Although these are possibilities, I prefer to continue with my current B&O collection both old and some very new. I hope we are not talking about either B&O going out of business or moving into premium installations only.

Re: B&O sales staff

TripEnglish — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:46:58 GMT

Sal, the "direct distribution" does refer to the fact that we no longer keep inventory between the shops and the factory. This is fairly common these days and has as much to do with new management as the economy.

Re: B&O sales staff

TripEnglish — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:44:44 GMT

soundproof:

Not entirely convinced that B&O's future lies with developers and interior decorators, as well as with AV-installers. Members of the segment Trip is so enamoured of rarely make their own buying decisions, usually can't be bothered with something as lowly as a trip to the store, and don't really have the time to wait while an obsequious dealer mucks about with the Beo5 programming in their living room.

I'd think that recruiting new customers to the brand would be a good idea, and that probably means having to spend a little time talking to "the common people", Trip, not just hanging around for the easy pluck.

But - as I've even voiced where it matters - B&O has two possible paths: either support their dealer footprint with excellent products and service; or become a specialist installer to the ultrarich with no need of a dealer footprint. I take it that Trip has made up his mind as to where to go.
This reminds me of the (place withheld to protect the guilty) dealer who chased a rich customer out of his store because his overcoat wasn't "sufficiently clean." The same dealer insulted a world famous concert pianist with the kind of snotty attitude that is guaranteed to turn off anyone with money.

Soundproof, the scenario you describe where the end user has only cursory involvement is the model that's currently paying dividends for me. I made up my mind to be profitable and as a business owner that is a top priority. Our relationships with custom builders, designers, and architects has yielded me 12 months of business in the 6 months I've been open.

Now I completely agree that this model simply can't work in most places in the world, but with our current product mix we are absolutely genuinely out of the reach of many consumers in the US. We don't have a BV8 40 and the BV10 is 6-10 months away at last count.

When I started at B&O nearly 10 years ago we had options for average consumers looking to go a bit up-market. We were more like Mercedes Benz or BMW to use a car analogy. I remember husbands and wives coming in to invest in a "grown up" audio system. In the years since the iPod and the propagation of cheap low quality flat panels issued a hammer blow to the AV industry and put many hifi shops out of business. Now quality gear has disappeared into out of the way exotic audio shops and the rest has been commoditized to a bunch of plastic rectangles. Custom AV, at least here in the US, has been absorbed into "residential systems" and is handled by security companies as often as AV companies. Bang & Olufsen was left with a retail network (and business model, and mindset) in a business environment that had abandoned the shop in favor of the mega-mart.

A point of view that isn't generally discussed is that when you're looking for just a television set, Bang & Olufsen is wildly (and to some laughably) expensive, but when you're looking to outfit an entire home with multiple a/v zones with distributed video and control over lighting, t-stat, gate, and other automation items, my quote undercuts other AV firms simply because I can do it all without Crestron! That's how I've built my business and until Bang & Olufsen builds me products that make sense for middle income consumers it's futile to go after their business. I can try and move 30 BeoVision 8s or sell one custom system through a contact with a design-build firm. Do the math.

So it's true that I've looked into closing my storefront and opening up a suite of offices. At the end of the day a high street location is a lot of overhead to sell A8s when I could sell large custom systems with nothing but a working telephone. I long for the old days, too. I miss the person to person contact and feeling like I've made a family happy and given them a real exciting part of their daily lives. It can also get a bit boring to sell 6 BeoVision 7s to the same home and feel like the client wouldn't notice if they were all LG, but that's our lot. All I can do is remain optimistic that Kalle has a better idea of what our company represents than TBS did. Time will tell.

Re: B&O sales staff

Sal — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:56:11 GMT

ed7:
I heard a rumor the next stage is ordering B&O merchandise directly from Denmark with few regional offices scattered in the UK??!!

I thought I heard that as well here in the states. I received a communication from B&O America (via email, and postcard) regarding massive discounts (B&O discounts, everything is relative) on select products. My wife recalls the verbiage being "... as we prepare to move to a direct order system..." or something to that effect. I'm paraphrasing poorly, but the sentence gave just the impression that ed7's rumor gave.

Re: B&O sales staff

9 LEE — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:54:54 GMT

Michael:

A happy place... flowery meadows... Rivers made of chocolate ...

To be quite honest however, I've always envisioned Lifestyle AV to be more along the lines of what Peter was lamenting hence my own secret desire to visit next time I'm in the UK.

Just ordered some astro-turf for the office and a chocolate fountain for the corner, just in case you show up!

I think i'm in an entirely different position to official dealers to be fair. My products are a fraction of the price, which immediately puts a 'velvet sheen' on any purchase. We all love to save money, and when you feel good about this - the purchase is much more enjoyable and the customer all the more positive.

I do admit to really enjoying talking to my customers and getting excited about products though. It's extremely hard work running LifeStyle, with very long hours - but i genuinely love the brand and love what i do, which i hope and think shines through.

I think the first post on this thread was a brave one too! I would say that being defensive is not the way to go though. Sell to a products strengths, and above all - be honest. If a customer says it's bad value because it doesn't do something, agree rather than go on the back-foot. That essential feature is worth something to them and if it's not there, it's not worth it to them. Simply direct your energy towards something that fits their needs - and if there's nothing there in the range just concentrate on giving them a good experience instore. They will be back.

I totally disagree when people say we don't represent the true B&O customer. How many people think to themselves 'i'd buy the BeoSound 5 if it was wireless or you could load up your CD's yourself' but smile politely at the assistant and walk away without saying it. At least we have the balls to actually shout about it on here.. We say what we think, and that's not a bad thing at all - i just wish B&O would take note.. We could be so much help!

Lee

Re: B&O sales staff

Sal — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:51:37 GMT

(A big hi to all the US folks here)...

One thing which I think has been said before, but should be said again is: B&O need to attract new customers. The strategy late last year of cultivating existing clientele doesn't go far enough to ensure sustainability.

My idea has always been to have one product which will draw customers into B&O. I thought the Beo5 would be that product. A self-programmable, self-customizable, universal remote. A B&O product for the masses. We already know people pay a premium for good S#iT (ie. Apple), I know I do; and I'm a solid middle class member. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer or a businessman. I save up for what I believe to be good service and quality. The Beo5, priced AS IS, would have been that product IMHO.

But again B&O chose to force dealer / customer interaction and close the system.

Re: B&O sales staff

ed7 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:50:57 GMT

I heard a rumor the next stage is ordering B&O merchandise directly from Denmark with few regional offices scattered in the UK??!!

Re: B&O sales staff

BeoNut1 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:01:45 GMT

Soundproof,

Great story. And, I couldn't agree more with your sentiments regarding loyalty to businesses that are enthusiastic and knowledgeable about their products. The premium one pays to patronize a business like the gunsmiths you described (as opposed to a higher volume, less personable store), is well worth it on several levels (not the least of which is that it helps them stay in business).

Mark D.

P.S. On an unrelated note, I've been meaning to write and thank you again for all the advice you were kind enough to recently give me about setting up my AV system. I didn't realize that you hunt, too. If you ever find yourself on this side of the pond (i.e. the USA), let me know and I'll take you hunting.

Re: B&O sales staff

linder — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:46:17 GMT

Peter,

In my youth whenever that was, B&O was sold in audiophile shops here. The sales persons usually spent their time telling me how bad B&O was. They always insisted on some behemoth amplifier would be what I really wanted. I should have bought a Linn turntable considering the price today.

Re: B&O sales staff

Michael — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:44:58 GMT

Peter :
These days with the B1 stores, one can no longer have any reason to go in except to buy B&O. In my youth, Windows, my much lamented ex dealer, sold records and musical instruments and other makes. This allowed a little browsing

Peter! Are you telling me that the Beolounge is not a real place... A happy place... With flowery meadows and rainbow skies... Rivers made of chocolate where the children laugh and dance and play with gumdrop smiles.

I just assumed all the B&O stores where like that across Europe and the UK

Seriously however, I've always envisioned Lifestyle AV to be more along the lines, atleast in spirit, of what Peter was lamenting. It takes passion, interest and enthusiasm. I suspect this was what Trip was attempting to communicate in his "suck it up" speech.

I've always hoped to visit Lifestyle when I'm in the UK and have a hunch Lee's built in quite a bit of that kind of enthusiasm and easygoing helpfullness.

I must be very fortunate as I have a very close relationship with my local store and the people there. I can certainly relate to Soundproof in the level of service I usually get from them.

Re: B&O sales staff

joeyboygolf — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:42:45 GMT

Puncher:

I've had several attempts at writing something appropriate here and failed - there's some truly unbelieveable stuff posted in this thread. If I were in Struer I would cry after reading it.

I'll leave it at that.

Echos my sentiments exactly!

and I'm not usually speechless.

Re: B&O sales staff

soundproof — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:23:13 GMT

Yesterday I had a nice dealership experience, in another category.

A few weeks ago I came across a Carl Gustaf rifle, in NOS condition, with four barrels - these are based upon the Sauer system.
First I got in touch with Sauer Waffen in Germany. Sent them an e-mail in the evening, containing the number of the gun, asking in what barrel configuration it had first been delivered, and whether the barrels I had were Sauer originals or the ones drilled in Sweden.

Told a friend that I was certain I would get an answer before noon the next day. It's just my experience with German companies - prompt and precise. Sure enough, I had a response the next morning, before 10. Gave me all the detail about the gun and the Carl Gustaf specific mod's.

I bought the gun, and yesterday I took it to a specialist store way outside town, where I know they are particularly knowledgeable about Sauer arms. It's just before hunting season opens, and I know gunsmiths everywhere are really busy getting guns already bought and paid for ready, but I wanted to have their gunsmith check the gun before I use it. I was prepared to leave the gun until they had time to give it a look.

When they saw the gun it created immediate interest. It's not that they are particularly rare, but they do shoot well and seeing one in as new condition, given that it was made decades ago, was quite special to them. I explained my business, and the dealer said he'd take it to the gunsmith right away. I was expecting him to return with a receipt, but instead he said that it wouldn't take long, he was stripping the gun now.

Meanwhile I looked around. Had a few things on my shopping list, got some ammo, as well as new snap-on clips for the strap (instead of trusting the old ones), bought a torque adjustable wrench to get the precise torque when changing barrels, and had a look at their optics. I knew I'd need a scope, but wanted to wait until I'd tried the old one. Asked about the scopes available, and the dealer showed me one that he was certain would be perfect for the gun. I said that I'd keep it in mind as I checked around for the best scope, as I had a brand in mind that they didn't carry.

The gunsmith came out with the gun, a big smile on his face, wanted to congratulate me with a real find, and stated the gun was in perfect condition. He suggested that I take it to the range and give it a try, but wanted me to show him how well it fit me. Which it does to an extreme degree, you'd think the stock was made for yours truly.
"You and that gun are made for each other," he said. "Just come straight through next time you're here."

When I was paying, the dealer took the snap-on clips aside and said that he wouldn't charge for those, and he gave me a nice deal on the torque wrench.
"Why don't you add the scope with the proper mount to that bill," I said.
I knew that I had found the place where I will be doing all my shopping as far as guns and ammo are concerned.
A place that takes pride in the heritage of the products it represents. With staff who become enthusiastic when another enthusiast shows up with something that shows he cares about what they care about. And who will go out of their way to ensure that the customer, even someone they've never seen before and who turns up when they're in their busiest period of the year, feels at home.