General Forum

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

TerryM — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:09:42 GMT

Flappo The Grate:

what i find so ridiculous is that it's only a matter of some simple tweaking to make the bno tv's really competitive , instead of cutting corners they should be adding useful features like as many hdmi's as possible and using top end 3rd party components rather than the cheapest thing they can find that does the job ( which seems to be the case of the blu ray in the bv7/40 )

one day they'll wake up and companies like loewe will have taken all their market and then what will they do ?

they really need to get a move on with their in house development with vastly more resources devoted to the technical side than the design side which seems to be the main problem now..

anyone for a gold tv ? ??? 'i give up'

What I find ridiculous is that in the light of B & O's apparently inadequate software development on new product releases one is not automatically entitled to as many free software updates as is needed to bring the product upto troublefree operation.

Is "all in one"system integration a double edged sword?

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

Flappo The Grate — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:53:47 GMT

what i find so ridiculous is that it's only a matter of some simple tweaking to make the bno tv's really competitive , instead of cutting corners they should be adding useful features like as many hdmi's as possible and using top end 3rd party components rather than the cheapest thing they can find that does the job ( which seems to be the case of the blu ray in the bv7/40 )

one day they'll wake up and companies like loewe will have taken all their market and then what will they do ?

they really need to get a move on with their in house development with vastly more resources devoted to the technical side than the design side which seems to be the main problem now..

anyone for a gold tv ? ??? 'i give up'

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

Bv7Mk3 — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 04:45:09 GMT

When will they Wake UP...zzzzzzzzz

They have got to Listen to there Customers..maybe one day????

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

blue2th — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:38:38 GMT

i've not tested the Loewe - but from what the article describes - B&O should have released something like this for it to be in front of the market, esp in the premium segment.

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/J8U7J8N8

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

355f — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:54:53 GMT

Ordinarily, in a home cinema set up one would have a seprate HD box and calibrate for that, then calibrate for SD then any connected products. Obviously there is not much porcessing going on with HD- hence the reason why even the lowest end screen looks good showing it.

The art of manufacturing and a real sign of quality in a technical perspectve is to be able to show good SD.

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

blue2th — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:52:06 GMT

correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the samsung and sony panels are one and the same (manufactured in the one plant).

you read my mind - the kuro would have just blown anything else to bits! imagine the b&o design + audio and the kuro panels.

although the pioneer lcd panels and future plasma panels will be made by panasonic.

but i agree with moxxey - SD quality/upscaling has to live up the the HD performance and it's definitely a bummer than an "integrated" blu-ray drive uses the external HDMI port.

seems like b&o have rushed it out to curb the losses but may have been better to spend bit more time to work out design issues and make it properly integrated product.

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

moxxey — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:59:38 GMT

355f:

Calibration would take place in a seperate process for SD and for HD

But how? That's digitally impossible. The BS3, for example, can't tell the difference between, say, BBC1 or BBC HD through the HDMI cable, via the same source. It's just a digital video signal. What I meant is that if the BS3 (for the BV7) was calibrated to get the most from HD, it's going to be razor sharp, meaning the picture will show every possible detail from a HD picture, but again every possible detail from a SD picture. Result? SD looks mega-pixelated (no smoothing).

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

355f — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:50:58 GMT

Calibration would take place in a seperate process for SD and for HD, thereason why Sd dvd is not so good as on a standalone player is because BR players do not play SD discs very well- unless its high end .

I really think the problem is that almost anything looks good showing HD content sent at the right bit rate.

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

moxxey — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:41:58 GMT

355f:

Thats the idea of ISF you can calibrate the individual connected source

they calibate it for inbuild SD and assume one connects a bs2 as a DVDsource and that explains why the image is so good for SD

But that would explain why HD images on the BV7-40 MKIV are so good and a step-up from the MKIII. The BS3 is possibly calibrated to get the most from HD sources, which would include HD via the DVB-HD module, which is built-in? This would explain why SD is more poor and pixelated on the MKIV as they've calibrated it around getting the most from HD.

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

355f — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:31:04 GMT

Thats the idea of ISF you can calibrate the individual connected source

they calibate it for inbuild SD and assume one connects a bs2 as a DVDsource and that explains why the image is so good for SD

I cant vouch for the BS3 range of IS adjustments but I can confirm the panasonic panel is full of options in this regard( this is the BV4/9

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

moxxey — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:51:19 GMT

Terry, surely the digital content sent via HDMI is interpreted by the BS3 and outputted as required? ie. the BS3 doesn't know the difference between the content send from a PS3, Sky box or Apple TV, via HDMI. You can't 'calibrate' based around the external box.

What you can do is tweak the internal processor to smooth the incoming digital content or sharpen etc. So, if SD is pixelated, and the BS3 doesn't bother smoothing on the BV7, it will resulted in a very obviously pixelated picture.

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

TerryM — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:42:25 GMT

355f:

The BV9 and bv4 are isf calibrated as they leave the factory- the panasonic screen allows for a whole host of changes to be made which makes the screen of of choice for the professionals who set up home cinemas.

In respect of lcd I dont know- except to say no one home cinema operator I am aware of uses LCD in high end set ups

Surely a factory ISF calibration would only be valid for the ancilliary equipment with which the TV was connected.

Does the Beosystem 3 processor have a full set of adjustments on a per input basis?

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

moxxey — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:30:19 GMT

Flappo The Grate:

ok , maybe the scaling of the beosystem 3 isn't up to scratch ?

it's already been stated that it's a bit outdated and is incapable of handling dts hd

That's what I suggested in another thread. It might have been state-of-the-art in 2006 (and designed in 2005), but that's four years ago since that chipset would have been designed. There's only so much you can do with software.

Mind you, doesn't explain how the BV8-40 can pretty much match the BV7-40 now. That doesn't even have a BS3. Indeed, I wonder what powers the picture processing on the BV8 chassis (which will then power the BV10, BV7-32 MKV etc).

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

Flappo The Grate — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:26:37 GMT

ok , maybe the scaling of the beosystem 3 isn't up to scratch ?

it's already been stated that it's a bit outdated and is incapable of handling dts hd

Re: BV7-40 Mark IV ... second thoughts / what is the "problem"

moxxey — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:20:43 GMT

Flappo The Grate:

samsung just aren't a prestige manufacturer , sorry. ( in fact they're a bit like sanyo or sansui - ie; naff )

Don't forget that Apple own something like 15% of Samsung's LCD panel manufacturing plant and their panels were very good, until they moved away from Samsung and used 'lesser' panels for their MacBook etc.

I don't think there's a huge amount wrong with the Samsung panels. This is proved by watching a good HD signal on the BV7-40. It's almost flawless. If the Samsung panel was so 'bad', why is it capable of showing such a good image?

No, the problem is B&O's and the way they handle SD. The MKIII is clearly better than the MKIV for handling SD and yet it shares the same chassis/BS3.

I don't think there's very much B&O can do with LCD panels - whoever they are from - until OLED. 355f is right about that one. However, they are still a couple years off, both in mass-manufacturing 40"+ versions of OLED and making sure they survive, long-term.

On a sidenote, isn't the Kuro a plasma panel? Why is the Kuro better than the BV4 or BV9? It's not, in my opinion.