General Forum

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Flappo The Grate — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:15:53 GMT

another amazing 'copy'

http://www.plagiat.ch/wp-content/uploads/diverses/iphone_braun.jpg

maybe it's a homage to rams ? i do hope so

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

PhilLondon — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:33:04 GMT

Apple does not want to appeal only to an elite, so they will not team with B&O.

Also hove you noticed that for products where B&O were in competition, Apple has won. MP3 players and Mobile phones were abandonned by B&O, because they have someone in front that can offer, for a much lower price, what we expect from a B&O product: Sleek design, Noble materials (Glass, Metal), good finish, Ease of use, Integration, Magic...

If Apple were to release an Aluminum flat screen TV with some AppleTV+PVR like feature, and a beolink-like media distribution system, B&O would be the first to suffer.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

linder — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:46:19 GMT

Hardwriter,

I think you are correct about recent modern design and near future. We are starting to see more bamboo used in many designs.

Although I mentioned the Business Week article for more background information, I really think design at Apple is whatever Steve Jobs wants.

Regards,

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Hardwriter — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:29:05 GMT

Linder,

At the risk of diverting this thread, I was not suggesting that Rams is the only influence on Ives. Ives is a very good industrial designer but if you look at Apple products in the context of design history you will realise that when he produced the first iMac the fashion at the time was translucent designs - you will find many consumer products that were also enclosed in translucent coloured casings then - it reflected the optimistic view that technology should be openly welcomed into our lives.

After the coloured period came the monochrome period when everything was either black or white (the early iPod age, should we say). That's the "Yes, we want the benefits of all this technology but we don't really want to see all the workings" era.

Now we are into the metal era. This is perhaps in its dying phase now - it reflects the "loads of money" culture of recent years where everyone believed they could have the very best and the economy could never slow.

What's next. Well, JI will probably know but some designers predict we are about to enter the age of naturally derived materials - this combines the green theme with the austerity of recession. Prepare yourself for a lot of brown/beige products with a hint of cardboard about them.

What you can be reasonably certain of is that, whatever design trend comes next, Ive and Apple will make a good job of implementing it in a desirable MASS MARKET product. You know, the first nano took nine months from sketch pad to production and notched up its millionth sale 17 days after release. Within nine months it had been replaced with a new model that was completely different in appearance and internally. That is fine for Apple but it is not a design or manufacturing strategy that could fit with B&O's business model.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

soundproof — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:59:55 GMT

Ah, I have two of those Jelly Beans, 1st and 2nd generation. Nice machines - and they still work!

Absolutely agree that all that is needed is that Mac owners be able to pipe their music to and through B&O equipment without any obstructions, and with support from the company. Just consider the number of years where one was dependent upon 3rd party developers for software ...
Apple shouldn't buy B&O, and B&O shouldn't buy Apple () - but my movies, music, photos and browsing tools, as well as net radio and video streams all come from my Macs and attached servers. If BeoSystem 3 processed that correctly I would have been a first generation owner; similarly with BeoSound 5.

Just make it obviously simple to use - that's the B&O hallmark.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

beojeff — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:41:00 GMT

I think Linder is right on target on all issues. One area where B&O is being wise is in the recognition that physical media is on it's way out. Still, I certainly agree with Linder in that video is going to be more complicated due to all the competing formats and download sources.

I strongly argue against B&O continuing to focus their resources on BeoPlayer: a windows-only solution. It just doesn't make sense to expect the Mac customers (especially for BeoSound 5) to boot up a Windows computer to be able to take advantage of lossless audio. Even those of us who are BeoSound 5 owners who use BeoPlayer to remove the cover art still find that performance is faster if Windows Media Player is used for some parts of the ripping/transfer process. As an audiofile who wants the highest resolution of music possible, I've been doing just that. However, I certainly can't imagine most Mac customers being willing to take the time to do this. Bottom line is that switching over to Windows on my Mac to do the ripping is TEDIOUS. BeoConnect is so simple -- if only it could support Apple Lossless.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

linder — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:24:33 GMT

The story about Jonathan Ive and the design team at Apple is a little more complicated. Surely Jony Ive was influenced by many designers but the inspiration for the Bondi Blue iMac came from a jelly bean factory. This was his first big success.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_39/b4002414.htm

As a Mac user and Beosound 5 user, I would be happy if B&O would support Apple lossless. As for the Beosound 5, it is a beautiful system that is no doubt a Bang & Olufsen design. Mine is connected to black Beolabs 8000's. Not only is the design outstanding, the sound is wonderful. I think the sound is better than my Beocenter 2.

I have been buying music mostly from iTunes since Apple began selling all music without DRM and at the higher bit rate. I like the convenience and like the fact I don't have to store a physical CD on a shelf. Ultimately CDs are going to be as rare as LPs. The same will happen to DVDs but will take longer because there are several competing standards for video download such as iTunes, Amazon, Hulu, and Netflix. In addition video comes in SD and Blu-ray.

I think B&O doesn't have to be Apple like. They just have to support iTunes audio files which they do except for Apple lossless. B&O like many other companies just has to make it through the recession and do in a way that keeps B&O intact. Maybe they will surprise us with some great new products.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Affineur — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:52:56 GMT

Soundproof,

Not that I do not appreciate Apple's design-centric product offerings, but I put many B&O products in a very different design category and ethos. In the picture that you have posted there is a clear distinction betwen the Apple products and the B&O ones. This difference is substantial (at least to a designer) and involves the use of continuous horizontal, high contrast features in the B&O products which give a very different visual experience. Such features are not present in the Apple products. This continuous hortizontal feature is even present in the "thin" Beo4. B&O are now going away from this design cue, although the BV8 is a recent classic example of a new product utilizing this design cue.

Knowing some of the Apple designers casually, it is clear that they are designing within a different paradigm where insertion of the design into high volume manufacturing operations is a fundamental premise. B&O, although not entirely released from such constraint, has much more flexibility in what they can do and it shows in their designs (and prices). At least to me. If Apple could have brought the black stripe of the keyboard on the PowerBook to the edge, then they would be exhibiting a very B&O look.

I think that if B&O were to approach an iPhone type device it would actually be round (just like some of the other recent handhelds they have designed: Beo5, Beosound2) or rounded.

I agree that the Apple and B&O products compliment one another, but, to me, they are very different from a design perspective.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

jk1002 — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:38:12 GMT

Still, Apple does not make it easy for 3rd parties to come in. Even if they would want, I doubt Apple would greet them with open arms.

That is just against their strategy.

Most arguments I read here I can follow, especially that B&O users make more usage of Apple products then average makes much sense to me.

I think the IR integration they already have is clever, does it require updating at this point, YES. I miss standby, genius and fast forward backward. For beomedia, the file transfer should be improved, maybe no file transfer at all as an option. Lossless I would want too.

Giving that CDs are "dead man walking" I am thinking with their Beomedia strategy they are on track, just I hope they don't stop here and keep improving it.

Software 2.0, I probably jump on board.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

soundproof — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:24:40 GMT

Well spotted, Flappo! Wrote about that here.

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/10733/80057.aspx#80057

Note the small radio with the wheel dial - puts a cinch in B&O's claim that they were first with that. As Picasso said: I do not plagiarize, I improve. (And for all my memory knows, I may have improved on Picasso there.)

Quite well aware of Rams' influence, hardwriter. But if you're at a MacBook Pro, just place your Beo4 next to it, and if you have one, place an MCP 6500 to the right of it, with your iPhone below. It's all in the family, and quite cheeky, too.

And this is just a sampler. One could always claim that there aren't that many options when you want to use aluminium, glass and black - but then Jensen/Lewis were first with that, and have had a lot of imitators. What's particularly interesting, is that Apple has been gravitating towards this over the past few years, after not having used the black frame/clear glass motif - which they tested out on a MacBook generation. But then with the iPod Touch and iPhone, it became the primary design cue. With the latest generation keyboard design really giving the game away.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Hardwriter — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:14:18 GMT

Hi, Flappo. Brilliant link!

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Flappo The Grate — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:13:39 GMT

spooky !

http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/rams-ive.jpg

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Hardwriter — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:45:46 GMT

His Soundproof,

Apple products are designed by a team led by a UK designer - Jonathan Ive - who is quite heavily influenced by the central European design philosophy of guys like Dieter Rams (the guy that turned Braun into a style leader during the 70s and early 80s). Steve Jobs also likes the same ideas - he allegedly fired a designer because he could see a screw head on a prototype!

The company produces some beautiful consumer products but their philosophy and corporate culture is so very different from B&O it is very difficult to imagine a partnership being either possible or, in the long term, desirable.

By the way, it seems - and I will admit that I am a convert from Apple to Windows - this discussion is less about connectivity and more about Apple's decision to restrict use of their audio coding.

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

Flappo The Grate — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:40:54 GMT

bno really should employ soundproof as a product advisor

or someone similarly qualified

they say apple had too small a market share to bother with , well what's bno's market share ?

and since when has bigger meant better , anyway ??

apple made a big profit recently , ms had a 32% loss in sales - nuff said

bno would do well to look at the way apple does it's mojo

Re: B&O, please get on board with Apple!!

soundproof — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:02:01 GMT

I've always claimed that Apple have recently taken a lot of design cues from B&O. Just look at the design-lineage from Beosystem 6500/7000 onwards, and compare that to the present iMac and MacBook ranges, as well as the present iPod and iPhone. There are a lot of similarities. I can place my iPod next to my MacBook Pro, and you'd see they were from the same manufacturer. I can place my iPhone (white back) next to a white MacBook, and you'd see they belonged together. But I can also place my MacBook next to a Beosystem 6500 or a BeoSound 5, and you'd think they belonged together - or with the BeoSound 4 ...

And my Beo4 looks perfectly at home next to my MacBook Pro.

Providing a very good explanation of why the BeoSound 5 is attractive to Mac enthusiasts. It belongs with their Apple products. If BeoSound 5 had worked natively with my Apple set-up, without my having to go through what beojeff is describing above, then I would have bought two, one for the listening room and one for the home-office.

B&O has a tendency to make proclamations, as Trip describes above: There are 97% Windows users in the world, and only 3% Mac users. And then fail to dig a little deeper: Yes, but how many B&O owners have Macs, and how many Mac users would become B&O owners if you offered simple integration and support?

At each fork in the road, B&O is surprised to discover that the Mac community loves B&O.