General Forum

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Puncher — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:03:18 GMT

As you say you've answered your own question - if the BM5 could rip directly (preferably from it's own optical drive but that's another story) and could truly operate (including maintenance/music addition etc) as a self contained unit and hid all of the PC/network-type stuff then it might suit my dad and other computer illiterate folk as an ideal, high quality digital music system. I'm not saying the BM5 is a complete miss, but I am certain it could have been something better.

My benchmark in these discussions is the Sky+ Satellite set top box +HD recorder - equally (if not more) complex inside yet idiot-proof to operate and has no outward hint of it's complex, digital internals. Both our parents have one, both are pensioners and both are really, really impressed - it's the first time since the advent of VCR's they've actually been able to record what they want without inadvertantly recording the weather forecast instead.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Russ — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:33:41 GMT

Mr10Percent:

Russ:
I hate to seem thick...but won't most customers for BM-5 have their complete music library on the administrating computer? Wouldn't this level of paranoia dictate that you have a backup of that HDD already? So, given that BM-5 is at worst a sub-set of an existing library, isn't a 2nd or 3rd back-up awfully, awfully paranoid? Russ

I keep my music on a separate HDD because a) I'm a heavy user of a travelling laptop and b) I cant store all my music and business files on the same laptop. Paranoid it may be but the chances of something going wrong with either my laptop or the HDD, I see as high. Insurance is cheap, my time is not.

In terms of back-up and adding music...it's easy. Just press "syncronise" and leave-go overnight. Both sources are fully matched. I'm sure it can be simpler and I'm sure a new solution will come if there is demand. However, what the BS5 has now does work.

10%

I get that part 10%. And you're thinking like me. All of my stuff is on an internal HDD, which Mac OSX backs up for me automatically; no muss, no fuss. I think most folks would see that as reasonable.

As my library outgrows the internal HDD, I am already planning to build a RAID array to store the files (as you mention, the hardware is getting cheaper all the time.) So far, so good.

Given those 2 situations, and yours, here's my question: If 10% or I add a BM-5 to our existing systems (even mine without the future RAID array, just the Time Machine back-up), then it constitutes a third copy of the files which are stored on it. Why then are some here bashing the BM/BS-5 because you can't easily make yet another (really redundant) copy of those same files. Where's the problem? Master copy on the computer not good enough? Your main backup? Why yet another?

That's all.

Russ

PS> To answer my own question, B&O are rolling out a work-around for Windows users so that WMP can rip direct to the BM-5. In that case, yes, you'd want a back-up. But aren't most of us using music on our computers anyway?

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Tim — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:17:36 GMT

In my Opinion the BS5 has been created to store some files on the internal harddrive and the rest comes from a Server or NAS.

I have 2 backups of my files on different locations.

I hope I don't need a backup but it's better to have one because you loose a lot of time or money if your data is gone

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Mr10Percent — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 01:33:47 GMT

Russ:
I hate to seem thick...but won't most customers for BM-5 have their complete music library on the administrating computer? Wouldn't this level of paranoia dictate that you have a backup of that HDD already? So, given that BM-5 is at worst a sub-set of an existing library, isn't a 2nd or 3rd back-up awfully, awfully paranoid? Russ

I keep my music on a separate HDD because a) I'm a heavy user of a travelling laptop and b) I cant store all my music and business files on the same laptop. Paranoid it may be but the chances of something going wrong with either my laptop or the HDD, I see as high. Insurance is cheap, my time is not.

In terms of back-up and adding music...it's easy. Just press "syncronise" and leave-go overnight. Both sources are fully matched. I'm sure it can be simpler and I'm sure a new solution will come if there is demand. However, what the BS5 has now does work.

10%

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Puncher — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:13:10 GMT

There was much talk early on of this being the digital music system for the computer-phobic, maybe slightly elder B&O owner (not wishing to sound ageist), and that your CD collection could be installed in the BM5 by third parties etc.

You are right - most will, but not all. My parents would likely be capable of operating the BS5 but wouldn't have a clue if they had to administer the music collection.

As I said, not a big point but could have been a selling point.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Russ — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:36:02 GMT

I hate to seem thick...but won't most customers for BM-5 have their complete music library on the administrating computer? Wouldn't this level of paranoia dictate that you have a backup of that HDD already? So, given that BM-5 is at worst a sub-set of an existing library, isn't a 2nd or 3rd back-up awfully, awfully paranoid?

Russ

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Puncher — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:05:57 GMT

Mr10Percent:

Well here's what I have done and will do:-

First and prior to the arrival of my BS5, I recorded ll my music onto 2 x 320Gb Freecom Toughdrives. One kept on my desk, onein a safe.

The BM5 then "backed-up" on of the 320gb drives.

That has cost me approx GBP120 to have a double back-up of all my current music - +600 CD's ripped in WMA lossless and representing a several hundred hours of my time ripping. Well worth it I would say?

Second, I will shortly be looking to see if I can back-up using the whole BM5 image using Acronis. However, B&O have a pen-drive tool kit that will enable full mirroring - available to dealers. I will be enquiring to see if this can become available. If not, then the second the unit goes out of warrenty, I will rip the HDD from the BM5 and image it off the BM5.

I can't see it being any more dificult than that.

10%

While you have been (wisely) very cautious, the method doesn't really lend itself to ease of maintenance (adding new music etc). I feel that B&O have maybe missed an opportunity to add and promote a transparent back up feature for the BM5 data such that single system failures are recoverable. This may have gone some way to ease the fears of technophobes who may consider this their ideal digital music player but have heard of such crashes and data loss.

Not a show stopper of course but would have demonstrated an appreciation of the time/effort invested in assembling the archive by taking the responsibility away from the user.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Russ — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:59:09 GMT

joeyboygolf:

Russ:

Hi TWG,

The 3200 ought to work just fine without the HDD,

I need to be persuaded that this is actually true.

Will the BS3200 go through it's initialisation at switch on with a failed HDD?

Maybe, maybe not. Can you comment Keith Saunders??

Given the 3200's lineage, I can't imagine that there would be a problem. Any more than if the Cassette deck failed in an Overture. Rememer that the 3200 isn't based on the HDD, that is a featured accessory.

Perhaps not the definitive answer you're looking for; but unless we hear from a service center, or someone on the Farm, I don't know that you'll get one.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Coolskin — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:43:54 GMT

I've asked my dealer to swap the hard drive for SSD card.

This is a no go.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

Mr10Percent — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:14:30 GMT

Well here's what I have done and will do:-

First and prior to the arrival of my BS5, I recorded ll my music onto 2 x 320Gb Freecom Toughdrives. One kept on my desk, onein a safe.

The BM5 then "backed-up" on of the 320gb drives.

That has cost me approx GBP120 to have a double back-up of all my current music - +600 CD's ripped in WMA lossless and representing a several hundred hours of my time ripping. Well worth it I would say?

Second, I will shortly be looking to see if I can back-up using the whole BM5 image using Acronis. However, B&O have a pen-drive tool kit that will enable full mirroring - available to dealers. I will be enquiring to see if this can become available. If not, then the second the unit goes out of warrenty, I will rip the HDD from the BM5 and image it off the BM5.

I can't see it being any more dificult than that.

10%

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

DoubleU — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:41:12 GMT

750 euro is just a small part of the problem, IMO. Think about the time it will cost, ripping 400 cd's again to your new harddisk, in real-time.

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

XavierItzmann — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:36:14 GMT

TWG:

this leads to another question on the Beosound 5:

Will it be usable if the HDD fails? I mean: Does the controller work or is the Firmware etc. installed on the harddrive? If yes this would be a very dumb construction ... ;-)

Ahh... that's the crux of the question, isn't it?

From trolling this forum for over one year, it seems that no one who knows for a fact has made a definitive statement, but every time the subject comes up, someone says that just replacing the disk on a BS3200 won't do.

If true this means that the replacement disk has to be blessed (minimum) or even worse, loaded up with B&O software/firmware. Poor choice from a systems survival standpoint, unless £750 each time is part of the budget!

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

joeyboygolf — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:30:02 GMT

Russ:

Hi TWG,

The 3200 ought to work just fine without the HDD,

I need to be persuaded that this is actually true.

Will the BS3200 go through it's initialisation at switch on with a failed HDD?

Maybe, maybe not. Can you comment Keith Saunders??

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

TWG — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:19:17 GMT

this leads to another question on the Beosound 5:

Will it be usable if the HDD fails? I mean: Does the controller work or is the Firmware etc. installed on the harddrive? If yes this would be a very dumb construction ... ;-)

Re: HDD based products like BS 3200 and BS 5: Useless when HDD crashes?

XavierItzmann — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:24:34 GMT

Yes, someone recently wrote about being quoted about £750 for replacing the ruined disk on a BS3200.

Someone else complained sbout HDD noise on their BS3200.

Things to think about.