General Forum

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

koning — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:29:39 GMT

Oke'

i forgive you

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Clakke — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:26:19 GMT

koning:

Please Father forgive him because he does not know what he is saying

Amen

I promise, the price difference was about 1.5.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

koning — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:53:28 GMT

Please Father forgive him because he does not know what he is saying

Amen

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Clakke — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:21:54 GMT

This is the only place, where I hear that Loewe should not have good design. Wonder why ? Myself and the friends I have consider both Loewe and B&O to have top quality design. As I said before, not much to design on a flat screen. But I think that Loewe and B&O do a good job at the little there are to do. The technical differences need no further comments.

I could also mention about the price difference. We compared Loewe Media Connect and B&O 8-32. I think that B&O would be about 1.5 times more expensive. We are coming from the outside (no B&O equipment until now) and we felt that it should be the other way around in this comparison. Now of course you will all be angry with me, but that was how we felt.

Have a nice saturday and a Happy Valentine

Clakke

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Clakke — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:27:25 GMT

The_Beonic_Man:

I like your response here Greg and agree with you about the reasons you would buy into B&O. They are the same reasons I love the brand. I know, of course, that for the premium we pay there are better products that could be bought - better in terms of functionality and perhaps useability and maybe even linkability - but, I just can't find any other company out there that seems to push all my buttons in the way that B&O do. I really do adore the design so much so, its a real love affair for me. I love the thought and imagination behind the product. I admire the time it takes of constantly refining their products until they are satisfactory in terms of quality and reliability. I love and hugley respect their attention to detail. I love the build quality. I genuinly believe that I am buying a superior product to rival products. Its quite difficult to pinpoint exactly what it is about a B&O product, and from visiting this forum in the last 2 years or so I now realise how many different reasons there are why people buy into the brand. These are my stated reasons only. I seek perfection (something I know I will never find but nonetheless I enjoy the journey) and I feel, rightly or wrongly, that B&O are on this path and share this desire too. Its being part of that journey that makes it exciting and very unique, as 'most' people out there couldn't care either way! But we are not most people and that intrigues me! Is there anyone else like B&O, really? I know several people would answer yes, and say Apple, but for me I can't compare the two. I admire Apple and like their products but there is a 'magic' missing that I want, and that I find with B&O. I think its the fact that B&O are not mass market. In fact, it must be that, because I know for sure the minute they became like that I would lose interest. This is why I don't understand the many times I read in threads that people want B&O products for less. If they did that, they would lose their credibility and reputation instantly. Are they really overpriced for what they are? I don't think so. If I did, I wouldn't have bought them. Its not about the money. That argument is the same as any other with whatever product or service you talk about in life and the answer is always the same, you buy what you like and what you can afford within your means. Anyway, slightly off topic towards the end but reading posts has sort of put that fresh in my mind.

Simon.

Well put Simon. Honest and straight forward. Interesting to read.

This indicates how different people think when they make their decision. You think and act as you wrote above. I try to chose what I consider the best for our family but I must think in more economic terms. I also have difficulties buying something just because it is a brand like e.g. B&O or Loewe. We buy a B&O stereo because we think there is nothing out there like it in terms of Sound/design etc. We buy Apple stuff because its simplier to use than a PC. When it comes to TV though I am afraid B&O did fail to offer a product that was up to our demands.

Design on a flat screen hanging on a wall: Well we thought that Loewe looks just as good. We could also have picked something cheaper if it was only design.

Picture: Plenty of TVs with decent picture.

Modern technology: Just Loewe left (Media player, WLAN etc)

B R

Clakke

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Puncher — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:58:55 GMT

I dont' care for the Loewe designs, they're ghastly. However, if the numbers are true, it proves it can be done and B&O presently don't know how.

That's it in a nutshell for me, the difference in design costs nothing (although you can charge for it if it is desirable enough).

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

kawo — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 02:24:56 GMT

I am quite sure that the folks in Struer look very close to the recently published Loewe numbers. They must have done something better. However, Loewe is (at least today) not global, most of their business comes from Europe and TV is their core business (almost no audio).

So as a guess for a second, the Loewe business strategy of their the TV business adapted to B&O with their audio business.....that might be a winner!

I don't like the Loewe design to much, it is quite "cold" (like furniture from Interlübke) and nothing that will last for more than 5 years. Also the build quality is from my point of view not better than Sony. I took the opportunity and had a close look to their line up the other day.

However, from a feature point of view Loewe has all the cool things I as a B&O owner would love to see in my TV....

Would I buy a Loewe? I guess not, pricing to close to B&O, and the extra functionality does not close the build quality and design gap.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

The_Beonic_Man — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:05:48 GMT

I do get the Loewe thing, and for me, it is like any other product out there - it doesn't have any appeal! I look at one, and instantly I know its not for me. I am really not bothered in the slightest how good the picture might be. It makes no statement. I am a creative person, I love art, I love abstract forms, I like intersting objects and sculptures. Loewe doesn't offer me that, B&O does. That's it in a nutshell. At least for me.

Simon.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Greg — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:24:19 GMT

Harry2008:
So it seems that Loewe has hit the right niche for the moment with relative up to date TV's, simplicity/integration, good design and a premium which seems to bealigned with customers expectations.

I really don't get the Loewe thing. To me, Loewe design or product quality is not exceptional - certainly nowhere near B&O. It looks more like the occasional "lifestyle" or "luxury" products from Sony. It's like a mass market product but with a price tag that's well on the way to B&O. I'd rather pay a little more and get the B&O, or pay a little less and get something that's basic in design but great in performance (like the Pioneers).

B&O sets are not usually at the cutting edge, but neither are they about sticking on some bits of aluminium and wood veneer and thinking that constitutes great design or quality. I have always loved the B&O approach of taking a while for the technology to settle, then implementing it in a well thought-through design realised in high quality materials throughout and that will look beautiful and perform well for many years.

I hope these core values, this thoroughness of design, continues at B&O and they are not tempted to chase volumes with mass produced product. B&O's past attempts at 're-badging' other manufacturers products (from Philips cell phones in the 90s to the Samsung MP3 player) have always made me cringe. Conversely, I've no problem with certain things, like Serene, where the internals are made by a specialist but the design is thorough B&O and the quality is decent. But, I guess B&O's decision to drop these projects, and narrow the focus to core products is the right direction.

Uniqueness of design approach and realisation will enable B&O to compete on value even at very high prices. Attempting to compete on price would be a huge mistake.

True, I bought the cheaper Pioneer in the end but if I had a little more money it would have been the B&O and it will be next time. And there are plenty of people out there with a little more money than me, happy to pay for the right product.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Harry2008 — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:17:21 GMT

Hardwriter:

...

Loewe and B&O both follow the approach that by providing something different they can sustain a price premium. I am sure they are both very aware that only a certain number of consumers will be willing to pay the premium. So they have to decide on the really difficult balance of price and desirability.

I'm sure B&O could make cheaper TVs, and they may decide to do that. But making a cheaper TV is not neccessarily going to make it a more profitable company.

Interestingly Loewe is running a quite profitable business (http://www.eetimes.eu/production/212902756 - The company's operating profit soared 35 percent to €28.5 million (about $37.6 million) on sales of €374 million.) compared to B&O. I agree that the finishing of B&O is better, but from a technology point of view, Loewe is more up-to-date and is offering a good consumer experience. For example the myriad of colors you can choose from for inlays, integrated (partly Bose based) audio, video, streaming, HD recording, etc.

The mass market approach (of Philips, Sony, Pana, ...) does not work out well, high pricing like Pioneer does not work out either (Pioneer is making a loss on TV's for more than 5 years already). B&O with a design driven attitude and last year technology has an issue as well. So it seems that Loewe has hit the right niche for the moment with relative up to date TV's, simplicity/integration, good design and a premium which seems to bealigned with customers expectations.

I agree with most people here, that by redesigning their product line, offering up-to-date technology and reduced pricing (although still at the top level) could bring a lot.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

The_Beonic_Man — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 04:53:00 GMT

Pushkin:

I understand the concept of 'magic' and the fact that B&O products have, for me, gone well beyond a piece of functional kit to something that gives real and sustained enjoyment - and I am willing to pay for the magic. I have two concerns

- firstly the TV range's magic to price range ratio is out of step with the rest of the range, particularly the beolabs which I think are good value for money

- secondly imho the magic of the older products exceeds the newer ones eg I think an technically up to date BV5 would be an absolute winner

You have taken the words completely out of my mouth! I agree with you on all counts, especially about older products having lots more (in my opinion) magic and especially the BV5. I must say however that I really do like the Beo 5 remote a lot. Its growing on me daily. Its a terrific piece of kit and when programmed properly is a joy to use. I guess if its not programmed well, then equally it could be clumsy. I should have put that on my list of top3 products in my other thread, I forgot! By the way, quite like it in gold but not sure about any other products in gold. An interesting colour though and my gut feeling tells me this might work quite well for B&O.

Simon.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Pushkin — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:03:32 GMT

I understand the concept of 'magic' and the fact that B&O products have, for me, gone well beyond a piece of functional kit to something that gives real and sustained enjoyment - and I am willing to pay for the magic. I have two concerns

- firstly the TV range's magic to price range ratio is out of step with the rest of the range, particularly the beolabs which I think are good value for money

- secondly imho the magic of the older products exceeds the newer ones eg I think an technically up to date BV5 would be an absolute winner

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

bayerische — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:44:19 GMT

moxxey:

Just out of interest, are you going for the 'number of replies from one person in one thread' record? :)

Only if I get a medal.

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

Puncher — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:26:13 GMT

Peter :

Puncher:

Would you be happy to pay for a new BV9?

I'd pay the same as a friend of mine did for a Mk1 - still a lot but a bargain!

Would you be happy to pay for a new BV9?

Re: Price drop for Bang&Olufsen BeoVisions

moxxey — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:25:26 GMT

bayerische:

I do not wish to upset anybody now..

Just out of interest, are you going for the 'number of replies from one person in one thread' record? :)

I understand what Simon is saying about the 'magic', but there are also too many frustrations about owning recent B&O kit, particularly based around sw issues. Worse, dealers should be empowered to fix these and claim back the costs from B&O, under warranty.