General Forum

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Evan — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:19:32 GMT

Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but my recent listening to my RL 60.2s reminded me to check the serial numbers due to this thread. Turns out that the serial numbers are the same. Anyone heard of this happening before?

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

tournedos — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:43:54 GMT

Good to hear it worked out to be a success! And thanks for posting a report & pics, they are always appreciated here

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:23:00 GMT

RL-140 Recap pic.s and notes.

Industrial strength hot glue gun is your friend for this kind of project. I've really appreciated this kind of help from others in the past, so here's my chance to pitch in.

http://s713.photobucket.com/albums/w...40Recap008.jpg

2nd speaker completed and I'm enjoying my "reborn" RL-140's very much.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:25:45 GMT

RL-140 Recap Report

Got the first one done yesterday. Actually went much easier than I thought it would. Was able to fit all the new cap.s on the PCB, two of the bypass cap.s were mounted on the bottom of the PCB.
The speaker wire terminal replacement went as easily as I thought it would. The binding post item from PartsExpress has the same center to center dimensions for the mounting holes and the spade connections as the factory terminal. Though the factory unit has 1/8" spades compared to 1/4" for the replacement, the slots in the enclosure are a little over 1/4" wide. Except for the need to drill clearance holes for the solder lugs on the replacements, it have been a straight swap.

Pictures and notes to follow, Friday or Saturday I'm guessing.

So, how did it all work out? I've recapped some 4 pair of vintage speakers with varying degrees of success, always to the good. Most notable in the treble, then midrange with little or no discernible effect on the bass.

The amount of SQ improvement from this recap far exceeds anything in my experience thus far. Perhaps most surprising is an easily noticeable improvement in bass performance, I suspect it may be in the upper bass/lower midrange boundary region. The treble and midrange both just really took off. I'm not good at articulating sound analysis, but I will say this.....

......I had the freshly recapped speaker hooked up solo (system in mono) for a little break in time on my main system after a test run in the garage. It wasn't long before I noticed my foot was tapping, I got to grinning and wanting to sing along. Next thing you know, the CD is half over, the phone rings, and the interruption pissed me off! 1 speaker in mono and I was having a big ol' time!

Ok, ok so maybe we've got the psycho-acoustic "It's better because I want it to be better." trip going here. Well, that was yesterday. This morning I hooked up my OEM capped speaker and did the A/B thing (still in mono). Played the same passages of music in each speaker. Yep, the recapped one is much better. Tried listening to one then the other for a while trying to keep the brain in neutral. Couldn't do it, I had to make myself listen to the OEMer, the recapped one made me want to just stay there for a while. There really is no comparison.

That being said, be advised that the fundamental character ("voicing" I think is the audio term) of the speakers have not been changed, but performance has been improved.

So, if you have RL-140's with the OEM cap.s in them, please get some good ones in there and prepare to be delighted. Don't forget they really get up and go with sufficient juice, my amp is rated 125W into 8 ohms and runs them very nicely.

My thanks to all in this and other forums for sharing the know how that I lack, and the encouragement to embark on these projects. Truly, my electronics goes barely further than the ability to solder/desolder.

__________________

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:24:25 GMT

joeybo[quote user="joeyboygolf:

I always rated them very highly, even defending them against the Penta sheep. Especially so when driven by a QUAD 405 amplifier, as B&O did not have an amp to do them justice at the time.

Check it out, you're part of this guy's sales pitch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bang-Olufsen-BeoVox-Red-Line-RL-140-Speakers-Stands_W0QQitemZ380193823695QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item5885515bcf#ht_18577wt_754

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

joeyboygolf — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:43:00 GMT

My avatar is a pair of Beolab 5000 powered speakers from 1989/1991. Sometimes available on eBay but very rarely in mint condition.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:06:13 GMT

ouverture:

well done Stephen, they are super speakers when they are in tip top condition

they should really be identical mirrors of each other, so you need to know which one to copy, so they end up both right - do you have the proper stands to sit them on as well ??

Thank you.

Yes, I have the correct factory stands. Favored placement so far is on the floor, using the stands with the woofers down, tipped up and in slightly.

joeyboygolf:

I had a pair of RL140's from new and they were identical.

I can't recall the serial numbers but would not be surprised if they went through manufacturing on a batch basis and they then took any two to make a pair. They were certainly boxed separately.

I always rated them very highly, even defending them against the Penta sheep. Especially so when driven by a QUAD 405 amplifier, as B&O did not have an amp to do them justice at the time.

I'm calling that question answered, RL-140's were not mfg.d in mirrored pairs.

Agreed, no surprise at all, especially as they were all identical.

Penta's have flocks, eh? Can't comment further as these RL-140s are my one and only experience w/B&O equipment.

Now for some additional RL-140 observations. The fella I got the tweeter from agreed to my request to send me the enclosure he had pulled the drivers and crossover from for sale on e-bay. It arrived with the grill cloth missing which was cool as the primary reason for obtaining the enclosure was to develop a method to replace said grill cloth and maintain the "Bang & Olufsen" logo on front. Turns out one woofer and the mid were still in it. I can certainly see why the mid was there, are those things epoxied in or what? So this is my first look at the front of the baffle and I noticed two interesting things.

1. The tweeter opening expands into a very nicely contoured horn that looks like a small trumpet. Try that with a piece of plywood or MDF.

2. The mid has its own enclosure, which seems to be a common practice when cone type drivers are used. When I was first assessing my 140's for repair needs, I pulled the back from the mid enclosure to check the surround. Turned out to be rubber that was in good condition (thankfully). I noticed two sets of 4 holes (approx. 5/8" dia.) each on either side of the driver, but couldn't see through them. "Why bother with the holes just to block them off?" thinks I. Turns out the holes, one set slightly below center, the other set slightly above, are covered by a thin piece of coarse felt. A vented enclosure for the mid. I may be showing my newbness here, but I've never seen or heard of such.

This B&O stuff is really quite interesting. I may have to get some more.

joeyboygolf - What is pictured in your avatar? An excellently obvious example of the mirror image, for sure.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

joeyboygolf — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 02:19:32 GMT

I had a pair of RL140's from new and they were identical.

I can't recall the serial numbers but would not be surprised if they went through manufacturing on a batch basis and they then took any two to make a pair. They were certainly boxed separately.

I always rated them very highly, even defending them against the Penta sheep. Especially so when driven by a QUAD 405 amplifier, as B&O did not have an amp to do them justice at the time.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

ouverture — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:02:25 GMT

well done Stephen, they are super speakers when they are in tip top condition

they should really be identical mirrors of each other, so you need to know which one to copy, so they end up both right - do you have the proper stands to sit them on as well ??

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:57:48 GMT

tournedos:

At least my smaller RLs (60.2 and 6000) are identical with each other, i.e non mirrored both technically and cosmetically (straps + the logo). Same with the Pentas, midranges on the left and the tweeters on the right.

I would expect the 140s be this way as well - if yours have the type sticker left, they should both have the same serial number.

One reply to this question from a forum shows that guy's pair of RL-140's to be non-mirrored as well. Seems to be de-rigeur for B&O during this time, at least.

S/N's for my 140's are different by over a hundred.

Now then, not a week after I got the Peerless tweeters fitted, an OEM RL-140 tweeter came up on e-bay. My bid was successful, took just over a week for it get to me. As I mentioned earlier the speakers sounded quite good w/the Peerless tweets, so I was in no particular hurry to get the OEM SEAS tweeters installed.

Got to it a couple of days ago. Put one in and compared between the Peerless and SEAS equipped speakers by selecting monoaural at the preamp and rolling back and forth between them. The SEAS equipped speaker sounded noticeably better. The Peerless tweeter performed very favorably except in one very important area, the SEAS tweeter seems to have capability lower into the freq. range (at least according to my ears anyway). This filled a "hole" in the lower treble/upper midrange that the crosssover design called for the tweeter to fill. These RL-140's are getting better and better. They're very close to becoming keepers, if a recap does as much good for them as I've heard many times said they will be staying at my house. They are fast, well balanced, decently efficient and very cool looking. With them my system has become mercilessly revealing of poorly recorded material (cd's my primary source) but gets the most out of well recorded material. Sometimes this is almost a disadvantage as much of my favorite music (R&R from the mid to late 60's) is not stellar regarding regarding recording quality and benefits from a system that's a little smoother and more forgiving.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

tournedos — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:47:27 GMT

At least my smaller RLs (60.2 and 6000) are identical with each other, i.e non mirrored both technically and cosmetically (straps + the logo). Same with the Pentas, midranges on the left and the tweeters on the right.

I would expect the 140s be this way as well - if yours have the type sticker left, they should both have the same serial number.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:49:14 GMT

I'm still working on finding optimal positioning for my 140's which has raised a question. The speakers in my pair are not mirror images of each other which means that positioning can never be symmetrical. As in if placed vertically with both tweeters inside, one pair woofers will be at the top and the other woofers at the bottom, for instance.

So, are y'all's 140's the same or mirror imaged? I'm wondering if I've got an unmatched pair, or if what I have (both the same) is how they came from the factory.

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:15:00 GMT

Obviously I expected your Caddy to be a bit more of a rarity in Finland. A very nice ride at any rate. Vintage SoCal (if that's where it came from) cars are prized as the climate is very dry, and the rust cancer not so prevalent in them. That car tax must have been a killer if relief from it makes shipping something like a '62 deVille economically viable.

The afore mentioned '59 red/white interior convertible Cadillac is #2 on my dream car list. #1 is a red/tan interior '72 Ferrari Dino 246 GT, complete w/mechanic to keep it running.

Ok, back to reality and RL-140's. Capacitors are ordered, and I'm very excited about the potential for sonic improvement. Results will be posted.

Merry Christmas, everybody.

Franco

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

tournedos — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:06:17 GMT

Well they are not that uncommon over here - Cadillac is actually the 36th most common car make in Finland (2200 vehicles, more than Rover for example!), and a large part of them are oldtimers. A lot were imported after the car tax changed so that you didn't have to pay it according to a similar new car...

As far as I know this car was bought new by a pilot who liked it enough to drive it until at least 1975 (there is a faded Western Airlines parking sticker on the front bumper). I have an old registration by the same guy from 1984, it may have been put to storage after that. The car stayed in CA until it was imported here in 1991, and I bought it from those people in 1997. The interior has been restored at some time already in the States and everything on the car is correct and in place, which is a little rare around here - will need minor rust work and a new paint in the near future, though. Kinda stuck on me, I don't think I'll ever sell it!

Re: RL 140 tweeter replacement

Stephen V Franco — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:31:23 GMT

A beautiful example of that glorious American style of excess and exuberance so freely exercised in the late 50's/early60's. That Caddy has got to be the baddest ride in all of Finland.

Speaking of which, how did that thing wind up there? That's got to be a good story.