General Forum

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Dave — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:45:47 GMT

Beoboiinoz:
...on BL5's...
Indeed, putting aside listening 'assessment' and shutting ones eyes, in listening to them, one could easily imagine with a very small flight of imagination, that one was indeed listening to the 'real' thing.

Only a small flight of imagination?

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

John — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:53:45 GMT

Greetings All

A very interesting thread to read through, and thank you to all who are contributing, and may yet share their thoughts and feelings about B&O equipment with us.

Perhaps I could be classed as a very lowly B&O owner/fan, as I merely own a couple of Beocom 2500 telephones and an Beocom 1100 answering machine at the time of writing.

However, I believe the balanced design philosophy, and hence overall qualities on offer from the telephone line, are in essence very similar to what is on offer with the AV and Audio side of things; i.e. it is B&O product design, quality and user interface through and through.

If I may seem so anal as to analyse the 'desirablity' of a B&O telephone over other devices readily available for such usuage.

A telephone is a communications device that I use to communicate to and with other people. Therefore I desire the highest quality of transmitted and received sound that can be achieved.

Of necessity, it needs to be readily accessible, that is it is placed on a table, desk, etc, and not hidden away in a cupboard, therefore I desire something that looks high quality, elegant, and of interesting design as it is going to be on 'display' in a room.

Even telephones these days have 'features', such as call waiting etc, and I have neither time nor inclination to be studying the finer depths of a user manual more than once to delve into the hidden secrets of an electronic devices menu structure/human interface. Accordingly, menu structures should be clearly laid out such that all the features of the device can be used without recourse to manuals and digging endlessly through step down menus and unnecessary complex interface design.

In all these areas, the B&O telephone range are in my experience, the most balanced and easily the best telephony devices for a home user, money can buy.

For me the keyword about B&O is balance. A Balance of quality of design, components, build, finish, performance and the human interface.

Recently, and as a newbie to these forums, I had the very great pleasure of attending an evening put on in Melbourne for a Beoworld get together, and had a delightful and captivating time meeting some of the owners and employees of B&O, and auditioning some of the B&O kit that interests me, in particular the Beolab Fives.

I've long been an admirer of B&O, but like many have felt that perhaps it was more about overall quality and design, rather than out and out performance, or cutting edge technology. As such, speaking as a trained classical musician, and someone who grew from that to become something of an audiophile, my journey in HiFi/AV has been with other brands, but I now find myself approaching B&O products with greatly renewed interest with products such as the Beolab fives making an appearance in the B&O catalogue.

The difficulty I found with the pursuit of 'high end' audiophile gear, and I believe it applies to other home entertainment products as well, is one of that word again, balance.

You can have cutting edge performance, but often at the cost of ease of use, or a pleasing aesthetic design. Indeed, in the arguably obsessive audiophile world, nowadays subjective opinion seems to over-ride scientifically provable fact, such that there is a plethora of 'snake oil' philosophies and products to be found to make any salesperson both proud and rich, and the journey for a music lover interested in buying equipment to further that musical love, fraught with difficulty. Taken to extremes, the kit becomes the hobby, not the music - (which is not to say that is not a 'valid' hobby for those interested in the kit) - such that in many cases, ones room, or indeed lifestyle becomes based around catering for the kit/technology, rather than the other way around. Surely the technology should be the means to a musical end, not the end in itself?

My personal approach to sound has always been the 'classic' one; that it is about reproducing the musical event with the closest approach to the original sound possible, i.e. nothing added, and nothing taken away.

Up until the early seventies, HiFi reviewing and arguably sound 'development' had a very scientific basis, yet this was to change to a very subjective reviewing style through the mid seventies up to the present day. As such, much of the Hi-End of Hifi has polarised into different 'camps' such as 'flat earth' and 'round earth' philosophies with purely subjective viewpoints of the reproduction of music hotly and sometimes most vehemently argued over internet forae etc. Brand allegiances and consumer pride seems to have subjugated any truly ground breaking scientific advancement in the pursuit of excellence in sound.

Then along comes 'forgotten' or overlooked (in obsessive audiophile circles at least) B&O and introduces something like the Beolab Fives.

To conclude my post, and to come full circle back to the original proposition "Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen"

From an audiophile perspective, I do not know of any HiFi company that has the depth of R&D that B&O put into their products as a balanced design. As regards the development and assessment of sound qualities in loudspeakers for instance, they use both state of the art rigourous scientific method with advanced laser and other measurement techniques, the largest anechoic chamber in Europe etc, and in the necessarily subjective evaluation that is also part and parcel of developing loudspeakers, they use an auditioning panel, testing blind to remove expectation bias - something that is unheard of in the general industry to the best of my knowledge.

Additionally key personal are fully trained with professional degrees - Geoff Martin for instance holds a Bachelor of Music degree in Organ performance; a further degree as a tonnmeister, and a PhD in acoustics. Of course there are other companies with highly qualified personal, B&W loudspeakers R&D team come to mind; and people such as Floyd E. Toole of Harmon International etc, - however many of the 'cottage industry' Hifi so called high-end audiophile brands are not on that sort of professional level at all, despite winning subjective acclaim on a sound quality basis from within the audiophile community.

So, Balanced design (aesthetics, user interface, quality and performance) are part and parcel of the B&O approach - and a principle reason for my 'buying' into B&O. Utter scientific and objective professionalism and state of the art R&D is another reason for my 'buying' into B&O rather than some hair shirt high-end audiophile company peddling it's wares under the guise of 'enthusiasts', 'we know best' or rave purely subjective audiophile reviews etc, etc.

And the results? Well, I may yet jump from B&O telephones to a pair of Beolab Fives as a B&O newbie, as I will flatly state on the basis of what I have heard from them thus far, and from the perspective of classical music training, and an involvement in this hobby spanning nearly 40 years, that whilst they are not 'perfect' and I can hear one or two qualities where perhaps some other designs may do things a little 'better' (very subjective term indeed), that when it comes to the classical approach of "the closest approach to the original sound with nothing added, and nothing taken away" they are amongst the very finest loudspeakers I've ever heard, regardless of cost. Indeed, putting aside listening 'assessment' and shutting ones eyes, in listening to them, one could easily imagine with a very small flight of imagination, that one was indeed listening to the 'real' thing. And I can think of no higher accolade than that.

Thanks for listening, and may I wish all here at Beoworld a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous 2009.

Regards

John

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Dave — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:35:23 GMT

TripEnglish:
Well said, Simon. I feel similarly. I look for a combination of quality and character in things I buy. I find those things in Bang & Olufsen and in almost nothing else. There are too few companies like Bang & Olufsen and we're the worse for it.

This is how i feel

I really love music to, of all kinds, and i really appreciate the natural quality of the sound.

I've also had a strange calling to AV equipment since i was a kid and it just evolved until i got to the top and now i'm hooked for life

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Beolab — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:21:28 GMT

I´ve used to be a notorious audiophile guy, but i have become to love B&o in a different way.. Because B&o are not true audiophile High End brand, but they are so different from other electronic company's and the magic feeling in almost every product is unique !

I now that B&o are not the best of the best in terms of the latest, but when i turn on my Bv7 with a HD source or a classical cd is real quality time for me! It´s like driving a Bentley from the couch because of the magic quality feeling and experience!

So from the beginning i was a customer, and now two years later í´m working full time at B&o!

Regards

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

The_Beonic_Man — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:09:45 GMT

Good post Alex, and my response is simple - you are already hooked! And that's not a bad thing. Yes you do work for B&O and it was only a few days ago that we spoke. In fact I think you do a great job and only add to the reputation of the company. You have great enthusiasm for the products and for good reason. You remind me of myself when I was your age. That's not meant to sound patronising by the way, not at all. Its just me showing my age and wishing I was yours again!

B&O do stand out from many other companies in a lot of ways and I will always admire them for that. I have stated my reasons for liking and buying into the brand from the outset and I do genuinly love their products. People have commented on the joy they receive when using a B&O product and I must also agree with that sentiment 100%. I mean, how can a company create that feeling? That's amazing in my opinion! I can honestly say that I really do look forward to switching my TV on because I will see it move towards me, the curtains open, and the channel come on! Sounds crazy I know, but what other TV can give you that feeling? Its almost as if the products are alive in some way, or perhaps a better way to see it is that they communicate with the user in some manner. Wonderful. I so admire B&O for doing that. When my phone rings and I answer it, I pick up the BeoCom 2 and laugh just before I say, "Hello, Simon speaking..." because I am so overwhelmed with excitement talking into a phone that looks like a banana! Only B&O! Brilliant! When I listen to music through the BeoSound 9000 the task of turning it on and watching the CD load up is a great 'build up' to the actual event of listening to the music! Oh dear, I am laughing as I write because this must sound so funny! But I believe that other B&O owners can relate to these feelings because they have felt it too. What other company could create that?

B&O are masters in their field. They have no competition, not really. WELL DONE B&O!

Simon.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Puncher — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:08:30 GMT

Alex:

................You may say £500 for a B&O system is hardly anything, but for a student who is also trying to save up for university and earning relatively little in the great scheme of things, this is a huge amount of money for me!

- I did exacty the same 25 years ago! Third year of University.........just married, no car, a fifth hand B&W TV (that's black & white, not Bowers & Wilkins) and I blew ~£1200 on my BS5000.

Still, she got a washing machine later on!

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Alex — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:49:29 GMT

I've spent money on B&O because:

• I want a system which lasts. I'm not keen on the whole 'throw it away after 5 years' thing, hence why I'm in the process of rebuilding my iPod with new cabling, battery and hard drive (most people just throw them away, plus I don't like giving my money away to Apple!). My B&O kit is designed and built to last (hence why I still have a perfectly functioning 40 year old Beomaster 900 in my study at school, whilst most other people have speakers which they got only a few years ago and are already falling to pieces/not working properly).

• I want a system which looks as good as it performs. My hifi spends most of it's time playing music into my room, which then plays the music into my ears. I would say I'm quite into my design and do everything I can to make my room as pleasant as I can. My Beosystem resides in my room and I would say, adds to it from a visual aspect. Very rarely do I get a chance to sit down and listen to an album/work/song cycle properly. When I do, my Beosystem 7000 does a fantastic job and a number of people who've heard it have been impressed in particular with the transparency and neutrality of the sound produced.
The fact that B&O have adopted technologies like the Acoustic Lens and Adaptive Bass Control and built speakers like the BeoLab 5, 9, 7 and 3 shows they are genuinely interested in producing the best sounding speaker possible for whatever the application may be. Very few companies could say they produce the best sounding speaker possible as they generally all seem to have to work to a budget!

• I want a system which functions well. I don't like the way in which all brand-X equipment I've used (including the system I've cobbled together in the lounge which somehow works off one remote control - just) seems very clunky and well, 'mechanical'. I like a system which works by magic, and to be honest, working for B&O kinda spoils the magic a little as you get to see how the system works from a technical point of view. I would prefer not to know how my Beosystem 7000 wakes up on the right source and volume when I put a CD in - all I want to know is that it works!

So as a brief outline, that's why I've spent my own money on an admittedly incomplete (audio only) B&O system. You may say £500 for a B&O system is hardly anything, but for a student who is also trying to save up for university and earning relatively little in the great scheme of things, this is a huge amount of money for me!

And no I'm not just saying this because I work for B&O, I'm 'speaking my mind'.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

j0hnbarker — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:51:16 GMT

moxxey:
Friedmett:
Keep you B&O happy and it will keep you happy.
If the software works. Sure. If it doesn't, it frustrates immensely.

In the collector's world Moxxey, there isn't any software, so no frustration. Any other problems can be fixed by those in the know if you know where to find them (just like the A-Team).

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

moxxey — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:47:18 GMT

Friedmett:
Keep you B&O happy and it will keep you happy.

If the software works. Sure. If it doesn't, it frustrates immensely.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Friedmett — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:40:17 GMT

To me it's the design first. I noticed that allready as young kid at my grandparents.

Then I find out how good it is by daily use. This will quickly decide if it's staying or going next time I will make a change for other audio or video.

With B&O I find the sound great and the units very well done. When serviced even the top notch old Beolab 8000 and Beosystem 6000 from 1981 forward can really be very impresive on a daily use on all accounts. Easy to use and timeless really.

At the same time the question of HIFI goes away. It's B&O for a reason. It feels 100% right. Anything else is whatever. I get everything I need in B&O. That's all I need to know.

Keep you B&O happy and it will keep you happy.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

ajames — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:46:33 GMT

For me it's the design, quality and longevity of the products - home wouldn't feel like being at home without it. It's great looking forward to coming home and having the whoel flat linked and have music and tv follow you round everywhere.

I was at some friends houses over New Years and they have just bought a brand new Sony LCD TV with a Panasonic 5.1 decoder and a seperate DVD - to play a film was a nighmare and listening to music is on a seperate system - I counted about 5 remote controls and they had problems getting the sound right and TV on the right AV socket etc. With B&O it's all on the one remote - and the picture and sound was far better on my ten year old Avant and Beolab 4000's. I guess then that another reason could be the ease of use, integration and accessibility to music and video.

I very much doubt I would ever switch brands as there's nothing out there that compares - if it gets too expensive brand new there's always used equipment out there all the time and with B&O's reliability it's likely to last longer than a brand new item from another manufacturer.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

j0hnbarker — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:04:33 GMT

....the heavy-oil-damped volume control on the Beomaster 8000 butters my sprouts in a 1980s kind of way. On a 1960s tip, I value the potential to use my Beolit 800's signal strength meter to take bearings in conjunction with a compass, map, and known transmitter location.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

moxxey — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:55:53 GMT

I'm always wary of these discussions. It's like we have to justify our reasons for our purchases. I don't discuss why I buy Audi on the Audi forum or Panerai's on the Panerai forum.

I only really bought B&O as I liked the idea of using one remote to control everything (or just about everything - I have to have two B&O remotes as some of the units overlap). It built up from there, I guess.

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

MGBGTV8 — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:31:03 GMT

oh just look at beo4 best remote control by a country mile made of zinc (now joined by beo5)

a lot of the bracketts and stands are also so amazing its just small details that count

some items like bs 9000 and bl 8000 have stayed with inflation in the uk and have been in production for many years without any real changes

i just hope that they offer better technology like bluray quick,it cant be that difficult to adapt to new ideas

also the porsche 944 had lovely quality i was always looking at the engine

ive just bought alessi coffepot by richard sapper superb design most impressed

Re: Why do YOU buy into Bang and Olufsen?

Hardwriter — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:36:05 GMT

I bought my first B&O item in 1986. I've bought a few non-B&O items of AV equipment since then and, although I saved money, I never achieved the same joy of ownership.

For me it's the design and the quality of B&O products that hook me in. Everything that leaves the factory looks as though it was designed and manufactured by people that want to produce something beautiful. Even the best of the alternatives look as though the final decision on cabinet materials and styling was made by an accountant - probably one with challenged vision and no sense of touch!

We all know - there are plenty of threads on this site that hammer this point - that B&O equipment is not the at the forefront of technology in every (some would say any) area. And of course its very expensive. But, to be honest, there is no end of AV and hifi equipment makers that can give you all the techie stuff. B&O give you a reasonable level of technology and performance in a beautifully assembled package that will last a good few years (my 1986 items are still functioning).

And, of course, it looks as good when its switched off as when its on.