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Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

akeithj — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:05:57 GMT

Thanks Alex, looks like it's between the Sony, Panasonic or a PS 3.

Regards

Keith

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

Alex — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:56:07 GMT

I've had good experiences with the Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray player, which is around £199 at present I believe. You can use the 'Generic Panasonic Blu-Ray' setting in the PUC list.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:07:09 GMT

TripEnglish:
How many times can I really watch the Dark Knight or Casino Royale? It's too much of a novelty for most.

Oh I do agree with that. I have many discs that I would regard as 'essentials' (and wouldn't give away), but when I look through them to watch a movie, I tend to struggle to make myself watch them again. Mind you, I could say the same about my CD collection. Now I've digitised my audio, it's way easier for me to find the track I want to play on the Mac Mini, rather than hunt the CD with a particular track.

The difference between audio downloads and downloadable HD movies is that audio tracks (think iTunes DRM-free) tend to be encoded in a manner that's suitable for most people. With HD movies, you get a 720p version, standard Dolby Digital track and so on. You lose some of the experience. Mind you, I suppose for the majority who've never seen a Blu-ray, they'll never know what they're missing! I guess that's the problem: if Blu-ray doesn't take off for the majority, no-one will be any the wiser.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

TripEnglish — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:46:03 GMT

Moxxey, I think you're right on here. I think that Blu-Ray holds a value for us and definitely for the OP, but I've found that B&O clients tend to follow the viewing/listening habits of regular folk versus other high-end gear owners who only listen to Hell Freezes Over or something! So the comments tend to reflect the larger market. They're probably not as applicable to a group of enthusiasts like us. I've developed the thoughts a bit:

1. Agreed that at this point there's more hassle to getting the content than anything else. I think this is the biggest barrier to entry versus sound/picture quality. This will have to be well sorted to really finish off physical discs. However, I think that if you look at adoption in general, AppleTV is a tremendous success with people who use it. AppleTV is, in fact, the only peripheral I feel comfortable selling to older clients. So there's at least one simple avenue out there and others will follow.

2. The AV quality will change just as it has with audio content. I agree that digital content is immature and a bit chaotic, but we don't often discuss what I see as the main problem with Blu-Ray:

3. We don't tend to own movies the way we own music. I've been in the biz for about 8 years now and have seen an almost universal lack of movie collections in clients homes. People who still have shelves of vinyl next to 100s or 1000s of CDs may own a dozen movies. They get them as gifts or buy them on sale, but we tend to rent a great deal more than we buy.

And that's where we see the most activity in STBs. Roku's Netflix, Blockbuster's forthcoming offering, and of course AppleTV's HD rentals are all likely to outpace boxes and programs based on the ownership model. There's still no decent torrent box on the market but I can watch on-demand movies 3 or 4 different ways. I think this reflects the was people have always dealt with movies.

In order for the pricing to ever really come down is for widespread adoption and we see no evidence that this is happening. So if the discs & players were to become as cheap as current DVD players, sure, but I just don't see that happening and it's just too expensive to get into it so late with so few movies.

How many times can I really watch the Dark Knight or Casino Royale? It's too much of a novelty for most.

Not to say that we don't see a value or that a value doesn't exist, but even for B&O clients I haven't seen the demand. I'm more likely to be asked about the digital sources mentioned.

(Disclaimer: I own 2 players and have bought or pre-ordered every Criterion Blu-Ray, but this is more a Criterion obsession than a Blu-Ray thing!)

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:16:21 GMT

TripEnglish:
According to the AVS Forums, there aren't many movies in the top two tiers and when browsing through them there aren't many I'm even interested in watching let alone owning.

Problem is Trip, that you might as well buy a SD DVD if you're going to download your 'HD' movies. For two reasons:

1) The hassle. Most people in the UK have a 1Mbps broadband connection. That's no way fast enough to grab HD movies, quickly. Unless this changes in the near future - unlikely - it's not going to become a worldwide phenomenon. In addition, most UK broadband users have small caps set at around 8GB/month of content. You're not going to get many HD movies and keep within your cap.

Looking at the UK iTunes film store, you don't seem to be able to buy or download any movie in HD. You can only buy movies in HD from the iTunes store....via your Apple TV!

2) No uncompressed audio. One of the best parts of Blu-ray is the audio content. You won't get that in a compressed HD movie download. It will be the same as the SD DVD audio.

Problem is that we're doing ourselves and injustice with our own AV equipment. I once read that the reason Blu-ray won't catch on is that no-one spends enough money on the audio equipment to do is justice. This means our B&O audio equipment is going to be even more redundant if the market moves back to compressed Dolby Digital audio and away from uncompressed audio.

Yes, Trip I do understand your thoughts about some Blu-rays. Only the most recent movies offer an excellent experience. Some of the older movies are just the SD DVD video stream, with better audio. They are too expensive, too. I have no idea what the publisher's are thinking of - they are often 3x more expensive than the SD DVD here in the UK as SD DVDs are often discounted soon after release. If the publisher's sorted out the pricing structure, then we'd see a better short-term uplift.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

TripEnglish — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:45:00 GMT

Blu-Ray was really limping out of the gate. Had there not been a format war to drum up press, I don't think it would have even the small amount of cache it currently holds.

Great DVD players can be had for $100 or less and the DVDs are around $10-20. Why double or triple the price when there are so few titles that take full advantage of the media? According to the AVS Forums, there aren't many movies in the top two tiers and when browsing through them there aren't many I'm even interested in watching let alone owning.

Digital content is it. End of story. It's so close that I'm surprised we're putting a blu-ray player in the BV7 and not a hard drive.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:44:20 GMT

Dave:
Blue ray is dead anyway, so no sweat! Doesn't the DVD player in BV7 and BC2 (or should i more importantly say, BS3) upscale accordingly? Is this search for a HD dvd player for use with your B&o setup simply a case of getting "hi-end cables" if you know what i mean?

Blu-ray is far from 'dead' Dave. They sold 600,000 units of Dark Knight on the first day of sales. Yeah, it's not as popular as standard DVDs, but it's not dead. Are the stats for HD movie downloads higher than Blu-ray purchases?

A standard definition DVD offers a fairly average performance on a 1080p screen. The beauty of Blu-ray is you get deeper and richer colours and, best of all, an uncompressed audio stream. An upscaled SD DVD on my BV7-40 looks a little washed out. At one stage, I replaced some of my most important SD DVDs with the Blu-ray equivalent and there was a big improvement - particularly for the most recent Blu-rays. Dark Knight is stunning, so is Kill Bill, for example.

Why on earth would anyone want to spend, say, £9000 on a BV7-40 (or more for, say, a BV9), then use BL9s, to watch standard definition DVDs? The experience is sub-standard compared to the AV equipment purchased to play the DVDs.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

Dave — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:14:12 GMT

Blue ray is dead anyway, so no sweat! Doesn't the DVD player in BV7 and BC2 (or should i more importantly say, BS3) upscale accordingly? Is this search for a HD dvd player for use with your B&o setup simply a case of getting "hi-end cables" if you know what i mean?

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:46:06 GMT

The_Beonic_Man:
You are right about backing up claims with facts Chris. I can tell you that a Sky Customer Service representative I spoke to on the phone about a year ago now told me about the upscaling of SD content for some of their HD channels
In point 1 you mention that Sky doesn't broadcast anything in 1080p because of lack of badnwidth yet in point 2 you say they allocate more bandwidt to their HD channels. Well surely that is the same point I made ... which is that the customer is still not getting a proper (i.e. 1080p) full HD broadcast? HD is either HD or not, it can't be somewhere in between.

Oh yes, some Sky broadcasts - like Channel 4 HD - are simply SD upscaled. Many are not. Of course, Sky Sports 1/2/3 HD and Sky Movies are all proper HD recorded TV. Only the odd Sky One HD programme is SD upscaled. However, the bandwidth allocaed to some of the Sky HD channels is superior to the likes of BBC HD - so watch a HD programme on Sky Movies Premiere 1 and it should be marginly better than the same film shown on BBC HD.

No-one broadcasts 1080p 'Full HD' content in the UK. It would require significant bandwidth. I think you need to read up on 'Full HD' and simply TV programmes filmed in high definition. No-one is cheating you or anyone else.

I wouldn't be suprised by the BC2. B&O have already said no standalone Blu-ray drive and I read that they couldn't get the mechanism in the BC2 design anyhow. Besides, as someone else pointed out, Blu-ray is not guaranteed. Why attempt to add a Blu-ray drive to the BC2 - and add further costs - when the demand isn't significant?

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

Beobuddy — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:12:44 GMT

The_Beonic_Man:

If you have invested in a BeoSound 3 and and BeoVision 4 GH ready TV, technically speaking and design wise, arguably the best set up you could have ... why now go for a Sony or other third party DVD player? I never understand people that mix and match. To me, if you buy B&O then you stay with B&O but that is only my opinion.

So it's clear. You need any third party device to get any HD content on the BV-4.

I would also suggest a ps3. It's original a game console, but the reason I bought is because of it's very good price/quality value.

Besides the reason you can play Blu-Ray disc, it also upscales standard DVD's very fine, it's loading is fast if you compare it to other brands.

But you can also download all kinds of audio and videofiles through the internet, and store them on the ps3. If you have a mediaserver, then you're also able to store audio, video and photo contents and play them through the ps3.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

tournedos — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:42:29 GMT

As you can see in the attached image, the BDP-S350 integrates sizewise perfectly with an early B&O home theater setup. The title on top is there to suggest that IMHO, it alone is worth getting a Blu-Ray player, if you have a Full HD tv.

The Sony is quite slow loading discs, but from there on I can recommend it. As noted, the earlier model (-300) is now a bargain - I don't think you lose much else than the ethernet and USB sockets needed for some half-online possibilities that nobody will ever use anyway...

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

The_Beonic_Man — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:19:27 GMT

You are right about backing up claims with facts Chris. I can tell you that a Sky Customer Service representative I spoke to on the phone about a year ago now told me about the upscaling of SD content for some of their HD channels - fair comment - not all of them. Of course you wouldn't expect a representative to such things but he did as we were chatting for over an hour when I was trying to determine what products to buy and use from Sky. I really appreciated his honesty.

In point 1 you mention that Sky doesn't broadcast anything in 1080p because of lack of badnwidth yet in point 2 you say they allocate more bandwidt to their HD channels. Well surely that is the same point I made ... which is that the customer is still not getting a proper (i.e. 1080p) full HD broadcast? HD is either HD or not, it can't be somewhere in between.

Regarding the BC2 and the discounted BluRay playback, well I didn't know that until you and other posters replied. I have to say I am very suprised by this.

Simon.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:15:43 GMT

The_Beonic_Man:
OK, so I can now see that you already purchased the BC2. Is HI Def really so important at this stage? I mean, really? You need to seriously weight things up. I have the BV7-40 which is HD 1080p but rarely do I watch content in this format as firstly, there are only 3 terestrial channels broadcasting it free: BBC HD, Channel 4 HD and Luxe TV, the latter of which is the best channel by far in terms of picture quality. However, I will not invest money in Sky HD channels (I have Sky HD) because they cheat and rip you off. In other words, they do not send out 1080i/p broadcasts using a decent bandwidth..
It is almost certain that B&O will update the BC2 to HD.

I'm sorry Simon, but there are quite a few inaccuracies in this post:

1) Sky doesn't broadcast anything in 1080p (no channel in the UK broadcasts in 1080p, due to lack of bandwidth). If you want 1080p, you need to turn to Blu-ray or 1080p-based PS3 games.

2) Sky allocate more bandwidth to their channels (particularly their HD movie channels) than any other. Indeed, it's a well known fact that the BBC HD channel has reduced bandwidth recently and that has affected picture quality. Some of the best channels are Sky One HD and Sky Premiere HD, for example. I can't remember the URL for the site that lists the bandwidth rates for each channel, but you might want to run a Google search and take a look. You might be surprised. No idea where this 'cheat' and 'rip off' comes from exactly. Where's the facts behind that claim? You've got to becareful posting things like that on boards without the facts. The publishing company I work for was sued by users posting false claims that couldn't be backed up.

3) It's already been discounted that the BC2 will receive a Blu-ray update. Someone posted on here that B&O have stated that there is no Blu-ray mechanism that could fit the BC2 design and they certainly couldn't upgrade previous BC2s.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

moxxey — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:06:05 GMT

akeithj:
Thank you all for your suggestions. Up till now at least I have not been interested in computer games so did not consider the PS3, I was also told that the fan can be intrusive

No, not at all. Who told you that? It's absolutely silent.

I'm not in to games at all (or wasn't), but there's the odd PS3 game which is good to play on a very rainy Sunday afternoon - I'm thinking Burnout Paradise, for example.

But, it does enable me to watch Blu-ray's, which is the bonus.

Re: Any Suggestions for a High Def DVD Player

GuyHui — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:05:20 GMT

moxxey:
I buy many of my products for practicality, rather than complete integration. Although I have B&O phones and so on, I don't have a B&O mobile, B&O MP3 player and so on, just 'because they are B&O'. Nokia phone, iPod Touch for controlling the Mac Mini, iPod Classic for the audio collection.
If you wanted a games console Simon, there's no B&O. Therefore the PS3 is a very good addition to anyone's collection.

I agree too.

I wish I could go for a full B&0 integration, but my priority is praticality and wiseness when making my purchases. For example IMHO, the Serenata, BC6, DVD2 are not worth the amount paid compare to the iPhone, iPod or another good third party DVD player like a Sony one.

Talking by Sony, I have a PS3 and it does a really good job on a long term run.

Cheers,

Guy