General Forum

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Alex — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:15:15 GMT

Not possible unfortunately! The BeoSound 9000 only has an analog input, no digital input. The only digital connection is the direct output from the CD mechanism itself.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:23:33 GMT

BeoNut1:
Let me ask you this as a side question: If I set up the BV7 / BS3 / Apple TV / BL5s as you describe, can I make it such that the BV7 screen stays off when I'm listening to music only (in which case I'd use my iPhone or iTouch to peruse and select music rather than the TV's LCD)?

Yes, but this would require a Beo5 remote. Essentially, the Beo5 would have to be programmed such that upon entering 'Apple TV music' mode, it follows with a 'P.Mute' command (easily programmable, although I can't remember exactly the command name in the config tool). The only slight issue with this is that the Beo5 would need to be programmed with an 'exit Apple TV Music' command on it's display, to send out the command to disable the 'P.Mute' function, to re-enable the display on your television. Going back into the sources display on the Beo5 and choosing another source would result in nothing in the television display. Ultimately, this is why I believe it would be a little fiddly, and why I personally believe you would be best off with a BeoSound 5! Store everything in WAV format with iTunes and you will be on the home run with no real issues! The cost of a BeoSound 5 in relationship to the overall cost of your system would be small in order to achieve high-quality digital music with a interface-to-boot.

Alex,

What about this: Is there an easy way to bring the Toslink optical out from the Apple TV in to the BS9000? If the answer were "yes", and if the BS3 would allow you select "Aux" from the BS9000 without turning on the BV7 screen, I could maybe hook the Apple TV via HDMI to the BS3 and then have a second line out from the Toslink of the Apple TV to the BS9000. That way, I could turn on the audio-master (i.e. BS9000), power up it's Aux input, and peruse my music collection via the iPhone / iTouch.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:23:30 GMT

Alex,

Thank you - you're really giving me some good insights that I (obviously) didn't previously appreciate. I figured that the BS3 would be able to bypass the TV with certain sources, but what you're saying makes sense - how would the BS3, or any other processor for that matter, be able to distinguish between video and audio sources when they're both coming in via HDMI from the Apple TV.

OK, if I added a BS5 to my (hypothetical, not-yet-taken-out-the-bank-loan) system consisting of BV7 / BS3 / BL5 / Apple TV, I could have pure digital output to the BL5s as I desire, I could forego the BS9000 (and simply use the CD/DVD/BR player on the BV7 when I want to play a CD), and I could also keep my beloved Beo4. Right?

I would lose the ability to peruse music via my iPhone as the BS5 would be the audio source. Correct?

Is the WAV format in iTunes "lossless"? I always think of Microsoft when I hear of that format - is it Microsoft and does iTunes play this format well?

Mark

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Alex — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:08:09 GMT

BeoNut1:
Let me ask you this as a side question: If I set up the BV7 / BS3 / Apple TV / BL5s as you describe, can I make it such that the BV7 screen stays off when I'm listening to music only (in which case I'd use my iPhone or iTouch to peruse and select music rather than the TV's LCD)?

BeoNut1:

Also, as a practical matter, how much better are the DACs in the BV7 / BS3 compared to my BV8? In other words, if I were to hook BL5s to my BV8 via the powerlink cables and source the Apple TV via the HDMI, would the resulting sound quality be roughly equivical to using the much more expensive BV7 / BS3?
TIA,
Mark

The DACs in the BeoVision 7-40 mk3/BeoSystem 3 are quite a leap up from those found in the BeoVision 8. The BeoSystem 3 is designed to be 'the be-all-and-end-all' of AV systems, and I believe it fits the job description well. Having listened to the sound produced by BeoSystem 3 PowerLink sockets with stereo audio on everything from BeoLab 6000s to BeoLab 9s quite extensively, I can happily state that I find the quality of sound produced to be very very good indeed. I've never actually listened to Beolab 5s producing good stereo audio through the BeoSystem 3's processor, but BeoLab 9s seem sufficiently transparent to highlight any possible flaws in the audio processing! For what it is worth, I am especially looking forward to the latest version of the BeoSystem 3 which contains a very unique sound processor!

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Russ — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:27:31 GMT

The issue seems to be that you want the digital out put from 2 different sources to go to the BeoLab 5's. As pointed out earlier, the BeoSystem 3/BV-7 doesn't supply this output, and there's only one digital input on the 5's.

In a pure B&O setup the 5's will only look for the digital input when the source is 'CD". That's it. In a non-B&O set-up when turned on (by pressing 'radio' on the remote), the 5's will check the digital input and stay there if it is 'hot'.

In your case there is no easy way to convert the TOS-link output from the ATV to coax S/PDIF, feed that to the 5's while bypassing the BS-3 entirely, which also makes it tough to control volume.

My advice would be to bith the bullet and admit that B&O (and Apple, really) see the ATV as a multi media device focused on TV and surround sound, which happen to be able to deliver goo-but-not-great 2-channel audio as well. For pure digital audio, in addition to the video Master, one needs a B&O CD audio source.

I'm sure that there are work-arounds, but as I noted earlier, I am most interested in 'intended use' for all of the equipment.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:00:30 GMT

Alex,

Thank you - once again. I understand much better now, and I also see that my vision of trying to get a purely digital signal from the Apple TV to the BL5s is impractical unless B&O does the sensical thing and integrates the BS5 better with iTunes than we anticipate B&O doing.

Let me ask you this as a side question: If I set up the BV7 / BS3 / Apple TV / BL5s as you describe, can I make it such that the BV7 screen stays off when I'm listening to music only (in which case I'd use my iPhone or iTouch to peruse and select music rather than the TV's LCD)?

Also, as a practical matter, how much better are the DACs in the BV7 / BS3 compared to my BV8? In other words, if I were to hook BL5s to my BV8 via the powerlink cables and source the Apple TV via the HDMI, would the resulting sound quality be roughly equivical to using the much more expensive BV7 / BS3?

TIA,

Mark

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Alex — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:12:30 GMT

Running it through a BeoSound 9000 would do nothing to the sound from an Apple TV, the BeoSound 9000 only outputs a digital signal when listening to a CD.

To see why the digital input on the BeoLab 5 produces a better sound, you need to understand what's actually going on in terms of digital signal flow.

When listening to a CD with no digital connection, the audio is going from the CD, being converted to analogue, going through tone control and loudness circuits in the BeoSound (all of which will add a small amount of distortion) and then going through the volume control in the BeoSound. From here it travels do the BeoLab 5, where it is converted back into a digital signal (which results in more distortion again), processed by the BeoLab 5 and the converted back into analogue, passed through the BeoLab 5's own volume control and passed to the amplifiers.

Every stage in this chain results in a small amount of distortion, but it eventually adds up. Using the digital link effectively allows you to bypass all the sound circuitry in the BeoSound and rely entirely on that in the BeoLab 5. The sound is never converted to analogue in the first place - it goes straight from the CD to the BeoLab 5.

When connecting an Apple TV to the BeoSound 9000, it will be a completely analogue connection. In order to get the best sound out of the Apple TV, it should be connected directly to the BeoLab 5 by it's digital connection, and the BeoLab 5 will control the volume itself. However, this is quite a quirky way of doing things and will result in complications. The Apple TV will ALWAYS output a digital signal to the BeoLab 5 which could confuse them if they receive a signal they don't understand.

I would personally just connect the HDMI from the Apple TV into the BeoVision 7 or BeoSystem 3, and connect the PowerLink from the BeoVision/System into the BeoLab 5, and use a BeoSound 5 if you want digital media in high quality through the BeoLab 5.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:58:40 GMT

Alex,

Once again, thank you (any and all advice appreciated). But, I get that part - that a CD played in the BS9000 hooked to the digital / optical inputs of the BL5s will give optimal sound reproduction for a CD. However, if we don't include a CD in the equation (and no BS5 either), only lossless files from the Apple TV, what's the best way to get optimal sound from these digital files? Is it to run it through a BS9000 or other audio master unit with SPDIF outputs or will that only put another, unnecessary "link" between the source and the sound reproduction? In other words, is it worth it to purchase a BS9000 or other audio master unit just to utilize the digital inputs of the BL5s?

TIA,

Mark

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Alex — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:18:33 GMT

Using a B&O master such as the BeoSound 9000 will allow best quality on CD as only the digital information from the CD player is passed out to the SPDIF connection, while the BeoSound 5 would allow best quality when listening to digital media.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 11:06:57 GMT

Russ,

As always, thank you. Incidentally, you can't seem to get away from my long-winded questions! Sorry about that, but please know that your help is much appreciated.

I want to make sure that I'm understanding you correctly as I seem to be getting mixed messages about digital output to the BL5s. Bringing a B&O audio master in to the equation with a coax S/PDIF output will make for better quality audio? If so, in this type of set-up, are you suggesting that the optical out of the Apple TV would input in to the B&O audio master? I ask as I've gotten the impression that introducing one of these CD players in to the equation would give me digital outputs to the BL5s, but at the expense of introducing an analogue link in to the chain.

Sorry I'm so easily confused.

Mark

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Russ — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:52:25 GMT

The simplest solution here is to hook things up the 'B&O way'. AppleTV to BS-3/BV-7 via HDMI, BS/BV to BL-5's via PowerLink. Keep in mind that the ATV's design brief is really to deliver iTMS products to the living room, which means (at best right now) 256kbps music, and 720p video. Yes, I know about lossless...I'm talking about 'intended use' here. When the time comes to add a 'high quality digital audio source', you will be able to choose from the BS-9000, BR-2, and the BM-5, with or without the BS-5.

On a budget? Scour the web (or Lee's shop!) for a used 4500, 5500, 6500, or 7000 BM/CD combo and a BeoLink converter. All of those cd drives have the coax S/PDIF output. And I wouldn't get the jitters about the quality of a well maintained used set.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:53:53 GMT

Alex,

Thank you for your response. You've raised some questions that I've pondered, too. As my ultimate goal with this set-up is to have a minimalistic amount of equipment, but at the same time not sacrifice sound or image quality, I'll re-word the questions that we've raised and present to the group to see what everyones' thoughts are as these questions will undoubtedly become more pertinant in the future as more people take this route in terms of their A/V set-up. Let's assume that we'll be using Apple lossless files and that we're trying to go all digital in terms of pathway if at all possible.

-is there a way to connect the optical out port of the Apple TV to the BL5s (either with or without an audio "head" unit like the BS9000)?

-if so, could you control volume easily?

-also, how would the Apple TV know to switch back to the HDMI cable for things other than pure audio?

-in the proposed BV7 / BL5 / Apple TV / possible audio head unit set-up, if you left out the audio head unit (BS9000), would the BV7's Beosystem 3 allow it to play music via BL5s hooked to the BV7 without the TV being on (I would use an iPhone or iTouch to see and control the music coming from the Apple TV in this case).

TIA,

Mark

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

Alex — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:33:53 GMT

Essentially yes, although bear in mind that if you connected an Apple TV to the A.Aux input on a BeoSound 9000 or similar, the signal would not be passed to the BeoLab 5s digitally.

I would look at your options. What are you going to listen to more musically, CD or Digital Media? If it's Digital Media, what quality is your music library? If it isn't lossless, I would simply connect a good DAC to the Apple TV and run it through the A.Aux input. If it is lossless, then you may want to consider connecting the digital output of the Apple TV to the digital input of the BeoLab 5, although this will present yet more issues, particularly how would the BeoLab 5 behave when watching a movie. Would it revert to the PowerLink input, or continue using the digital input? Roger or Soundproof may be able to answer this one.

From a personal point of view, I would connect the digital connection to say, a BeoSound 9000 for true 'high end' listening, and then my Apple TV would simply connect straight into the BeoSystem 3/BeoVision 7-40 and use the DACs built into that.

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 04:43:39 GMT

Anyone?

Re: BV7 / BS3 question regarding audio

BeoNut1 — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:41:57 GMT

So, does that mean that the sound quality would be worse if I just used the BS3 via Powerlink cables to run the BL5s as opposed to introducing a B&O audio source that I somehow had the Apple TV connected to and which was in turn connected to the BL5s via digital coaxial cables?

Mark