General Forum

Re: The B&O problem?

Russ — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:14:00 GMT

Puncher:
Is it a coincidence that a lot of the "don't change anything, our TV range is the best and there isn't a real alternative" supporters on this thread seem to be from the US? Is the market landscape that different there? Maybe the stores there aren't closing at an alarming rate, or B&O US's business report looks significantly different to Europe's....
I do of course realise that all I've said is futile

Not all futile, I hope!

Perhaps the schism you see between the EU posters here and the Colonists has as much to do with the product portfolio as anything else. We don't get the BV-6/BR-6, wedon't get the BV-8 26, we didn't get the BV-7 MK1 or 2, and never a 32" at all. For the last 9 years or so, our opinion of B&O video has been built upon the Avant/US/BeoSystem1, The BeoVision 4, the BeoSystem 3 family, and the BV8-32.

In another thread recently I jokingly noted that we never suffered the heartbreak that must have been the BV-7 MK 1 & 2...and we didn't. When someone here disparages the BV-7 for picture quality, we look at 'ours' and scream "What are they talking about?" Look at what we've seen. If you'd seen only those sets, what would you think? Those TV's don't need to change (My opinion of the BV-9 notwithstanding), and there really isn't anything else like them anywhere.

As to questions of an 'entry level TV', this is what happens in US stores is this: Guy walking down the mall with wife/girlfriend...sees the TV's through the window...doesn't recognize the store name, but decides to pop in...first words out of mouth: "So how much does that TV cost?" Game over.

In the EU, at least there are fair odds that the guy knows the name and has at least some expectation about the price. Not so over here.

It would be nice to have another BV-8 here to fill the $10,000.00USD price gap we currently have in the line.

Re: The B&O problem?

Affineur — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:11:20 GMT

linder,

I do not know what the details of the B&O pricing strategy is but they do have a rationale. Typically such strategies are not made public but often a breakdown of the various customer types is presented in some way to those who will be doing the endpoint marketing (salesmen, client representatives, and product specialists). Often pointers are given in how to engage with such prospective clients thereby partially setting the tone of the store experience. Any approach that I might propose is done in ignorance of full understanding of the demographics of the B&O client base. I do know why the products appeal to me but that may not be typical or even common.

Re: The B&O problem?

Razlaw — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:12:03 GMT

I do not really understand the Louis Vitton analogy. Just taking a quick look at their web page a pocket organizer is $250 and man's billfold is over $300. I am not criticizing their prices. Just commenting that their prices on the entry level items are 5 to 10 times the price of mass market items. The same multiple people complain about B and O.

Re: The B&O problem?

linder — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:54:46 GMT

Affineur:
Hi Alex,
I am surpised that B&O has not given you and your collegues a background presentation on their demographic marketing approach. This is the origin of the pricing strategy. It is not clear how you could successfully market the products without this knowledge so shame on B&O. I would expect that they will want all associates to understand the pricing rationale.

Interesting observations but could you explain this marketing approach?

Re: The B&O problem?

linder — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:51:16 GMT

Alex:
I'm one of Bang & Olufsen's biggest cheerleaders ... but some of the decisions we make as a company really make me scratch my head. Bang & Olufsen certainly isn't for everyone ... but I think without any real entry level products in a way we might be damaging the future of our business. We'll see what happens!

Alex,

Thanks for your candor. I can hardly wait to visit your store. However I won't be looking for a Beosound 3. My iPhone as it turns out is a really good alarm clock.

Re: The B&O problem?

linder — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:47:18 GMT

Puncher:
Is it a coincidence that a lot of the "don't change anything, our TV range is the best and there isn't a real alternative" supporters on this thread seem to be from the US? Is the market landscape that different there? Maybe the stores there aren't closing at an alarming rate, or B&O US's business report looks significantly different to Europe's.
Perhaps the customers enjoy more their egos (and wallets) massaged by being told how "exclusive" they are.
I find being dismissive of someones opinion of differences, especially someone who owns a B&O panel and it's lower cost, (cheap, plastic) alternative, disturbing.
I do of course realise that all I've said is futile

Quite the contrary, as I discussed earlier in this thread, the B&O stores are mostly empty. I think the main reason is that we have an array of choices for an AV installation oftentimes at less money. All the main European, American, and Asian brands are here and there are plenty of people who can design a system for any budget. When you enter a B&O store, the choices are limited and the prices high.

Yes of course there is a certain amount of exclusivity to B&O products mostly because the brand is not well known in the USA. B&O only advertises in relatively obscure designer magazines. There are rarely ads for B&O in AV magazines.

As for myself I don't care about TV too much. I have a small TV in a side bedroom for occasional use. I am more interested in the music products such as the speakers and players. I am planning on acquiring a pair of Beolab 5s in the spring. I don't think of the Beolab 5s as a down market product. I am not buying Beolab 5s because most people don't have them but I am buying them for me. I love B&O products and got my first system about 25 years ago.

I think people here are ready for change but are hesitating because nobody knows what the change is other than the Beosound 5. Beosound 5 won't be here until March. It remains to be seen how it will be received.

Anybody who empties their wallet for exclusivity gets an empty wallet and nothing more.

Re: The B&O problem?

soundproof — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:52:47 GMT

Ask GM. There's another company whose product development was left to bean counters and store traffic counters, rather than engineers and designers with a specific goal. Until the very end, GM exec's kept insisting that their product was top notch, though they had to throw money after people to get them to buy it.

Re: The B&O problem?

Puncher — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:26:59 GMT

Is it a coincidence that a lot of the "don't change anything, our TV range is the best and there isn't a real alternative" supporters on this thread seem to be from the US? Is the market landscape that different there? Maybe the stores there aren't closing at an alarming rate, or B&O US's business report looks significantly different to Europe's.

Perhaps the customers enjoy more their egos (and wallets) massaged by being told how "exclusive" they are.

I find being dismissive of someones opinion of differences, especially someone who owns a B&O panel and it's lower cost, (cheap, plastic) alternative, disturbing.

I do of course realise that all I've said is futile

Re: The B&O problem?

plagente — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:18:23 GMT

Affineur:
Hi Alex,
I am surpised that B&O has not given you and your collegues a background presentation on their demographic marketing approach. This is the origin of the pricing strategy. It is not clear how you could successfully market the products without this knowledge so shame on B&O. I would expect that they will want all associates to understand the pricing rationale.

Affineur, Alex talked about what the average customer says when it hears the price of a 40" TV.

I think he understands very well the B&O pricing rationale, but this is not the case for many potential customers.

In my case, I love B&O products, I owned several systems but I do not understand the pricing of B&O TVs even if I can put the money on the table.

B&O is going to be severely affected by the current crisis and RIGHT NOW the question is "how the dealer network will survive".

I think many people here are in a love affair with B&O, that's normal. But let's talk about concret things, such as revenus and net income of B&O and dealers.

You can argue on the quality of images and aluminium, if nobody buys the products it remains just a virtual discussion in a forum . Like the captain of the titanic saying "what a beautiful Boat", yes but it's sinking.

Try to listen to what the average customers say , listen to your customers, listen to the dealers and try to find a way to survive instead of saying, "you are silly and poor people because you buy a Panasonic with plastic enclosures, "or "You do not understand the B&O way of life".

Look at what other successfull luxury brands do.

Vuiton is a luxury Brand and it sells thousands of entry products at understandable premium prices (with very high margins), keeping reachable for the average people to buy them.

And Vuiton has items at very high cost wich maintain the brand's luxury image and enable them to get high margins on entry products.

But Vuiton makes its margins on entry products.

B&O does not have an entry product line where they can get high margins and sell to the mass.

This is the problem guys.

Re: The B&O problem?

Affineur — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:05:53 GMT

Hi Alex,

I am surpised that B&O has not given you and your collegues a background presentation on their demographic marketing approach. This is the origin of the pricing strategy. It is not clear how you could successfully market the products without this knowledge so shame on B&O. I would expect that they will want all associates to understand the pricing rationale.

Re: The B&O problem?

anampersand — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:18:32 GMT

Good Lord!

Lovely to see a dealer--one who actually identifies his store in his signature--come in and admit the need for change while still professing his love for, and loyalty to, the brand.

Stopped in your store a few weeks ago actually when I was visiting--great store and a really helpful, friendly staff.

Anyway, a nice change. Certain dealers wouldn't dare mention their stores because with the horrid attitude that lingers around these boards, they'd undoubtedly lose at least some slice of clientele, which in this economy, more than likely wouldn't be feasible, even if it may not make up the bulk of revenues.

Re: The B&O problem?

Alex — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:15:54 GMT

This is quite the interesting thread ... I would be doing the company a tremendous disservice is I didn't chime in with my two cents.

The issue of "price" will probably never go away but I think now more than ever it has more to do with a pretty big fault in product development than anything else. Unlike any other manufacturer (and I really can't stand making the comparison between B&O and the other guys) Bang & Olufsen lacks any true entry level solution for anything. BeoSound 3 is not an entry level audio system ... it's a glorified clock radio. BeoVision 7 is not an entry level Bang & Olufsen television ... it's an entry level video system. The problem with this is not everyone is really looking for a full video system. Word on the street it that the US Market is getting the snub on the 40" BeoVision 8 because it will compete with BeoVision 7 sales. I disagree. Many (actually most) of the BeoVision 7 sales I make are typically just the BeoVision 7 by itself. $14,500 means a lot more to Americans than it did 12 months ago and when most customers that walk into my store looking for a 40" TV they genuinely cannot get over the price tag ... and for the most part after they hear how much it costs they don't care what it does. All they see is a gorgeous TV priced 10 times more than what another 40" LCD costs. If someone is looking for "just a TV" it's hard, if not impossible, to justify the price. For me, it's a bit discouraging to hear people tell me how crazy we are to charge this much for a "TV" but perhaps it really just is the market segment that B&O is going after in the US. Personally, I would much rather sell 10 40" BeoVision 8's a month at half the price of a BeoVision 7 than 2 BeoVision 7's. The 32" BeoVision 8 has been our most popular set since it was launched in the US and I think it's largely in part to the price being "acceptable" for a Bang & Olufsen television, and more importantly there aren't a truckload of features that the client will never utilize in it's most common application.

I'm one of Bang & Olufsen's biggest cheerleaders ... but some of the decisions we make as a company really make me scratch my head. Bang & Olufsen certainly isn't for everyone ... but I think without any real entry level products in a way we might be damaging the future of our business. We'll see what happens!

Re: The B&O problem?

burantek — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:26:33 GMT

Dking63:
I'm with Jeff hear, either you appreciate the company, its history and products (past, present and future), or you don't. Where as I used to be in a postion to stay up to date with B&O after having seven children my resource are limited, so I just thank God that the equipment I have has and continues to service my family very well. My children are growing up with the style and quality of B&O and know that when they get older and get jobs they will always know what they can get daddy.
Just enjoy the music, with B&O of course.
Dave

dave:

i assume you meant me! i hope, 'cuz i agree w/ your reply! i don't have (7) -god bless you! -but i do have (2) gals -and you are right! i still use 40+ year old pieces from my collection every day! the last thing i need (want) to do is equate everything about something that gives me pleasure (b&o) into facts and figures (i deal w/ enough speadsheets at work)! we could all sit here and argue our points all day long, but you know what -who cares -if what b&o does now causes you so much grief -well -life is short! buy it or don't! right now, i am enjoying natalie merchant! that is all that matters! i am happy and smiling!

to quote you: just enjoy!

and yes, back to having kids -i have a pair of 2400's reserved for them -and you know what -i think that i'll paint them pink!

Re: The B&O problem?

Dking63 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:22:03 GMT

I'm with Jeff hear, either you appreciate the company, its history and products (past, present and future), or you don't. Where as I used to be in a postion to stay up to date with B&O after having seven children my resource are limited, so I just thank God that the equipment I have has and continues to service my family very well. My children are growing up with the style and quality of B&O and know that when they get older and get jobs they will always know what they can get daddy.

Just enjoy the music, with B&O of course.

Dave

Re: The B&O problem?

ed7 — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:24:57 GMT

ok gentlemen i think most of us here on this thread owned b&o item or two or three i owned 3 items for a period spaded over 15 years do not have any now .my last purchase was bv7-32 the heart ruled the head big -big mistake for me i sold my 7-32 was nor impressed with the picture in fact was inferior to warrant the b&o badge never recovered still have the money to buy another set but not convinced yet ,i am sorry b& o does not do it for me , still do not fancy anything -else but will make do for the interim with another brand and yes i can changed twice possibly three times for the price of b&o (must stress the price on its own a small issue incomparssion to what that money buys!!!