General Forum

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

soundproof — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:48:08 GMT

beoberlin:
Have you thought about one of Classé´s Delta series? Imho they go at least from a design related point of view quite well together.
Regards, beoberlin

Yes, they are very nice, and I have tried the CDP-300.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

beoberlin — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:23:37 GMT

Have you thought about one of Classé´s Delta series? Imho they go at least from a design related point of view quite well together.

Regards, beoberlin

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

soundproof — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:09:44 GMT

koning:
What about the software in the beolab 5,can they improve that also or will that not give any sound improvements.

That's upgradeable through replacement of the ROM-chip in each -- maybe someone here knows whether there have been any such upgrades worth looking into, and what they are?

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

koning — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:35:15 GMT

What about the software in the beolab 5,can they improve that also or will that not give any sound improvements.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

soundproof — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:46:40 GMT

koning:
What about the "old" ones.......Do you think sounproof they will be up-gradeble in the future.

As an owner of a pair of "old ones" I'd like to answer yes, but I wonder. It would be a substantial job, I suspect. Maybe Dave Moulton can offer an opinion.

Whether you need to is another matter. There have been extensive studies where high-resolution playback has been compared to cd-resolution -- and where hundreds of test persons have not been able to distinguish significantly between the two.

The BL5s handle 24bit/96kHz, and I would think that will suffice. Also worth noting that if you do the upsampling "outside" the speakers, they will convey that result without coloring or degrading it. Which means I'm not worrying about this ...

Too bad B&O didn't focus on the tremendous advantage that this technology offered, from 2003 onwards, instead of messing about with mp3-players and mobile phones!

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

koning — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:23:45 GMT

What about the "old" ones.......Do you think sounproof they will be up-gradeable in the future.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

soundproof — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:15:05 GMT

Beobird:
bayerische:
Beobird:
If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

I thought the Beolab 5 re-samples the signal anyways, since it has digital cross-overs? ... ? Then Its no idea to have a very expensive CD player. I had a Pathos Endorphin previous to my BS9000, and I was thinking of saving it to use with the Lab5's, since the look of the CD player was somewhat same as the Beolab5's look. But I didn't see any point to have a 7000e + CD player and have the signal redone by the lab5's. And having such a expensive transport is just a waste of money IMHO.

Didn't know that, but then it's a waste of money to buy a high-end cd-player

Not necessarily - depends upon what that high-end CD-player does.

The signal you are listening to, stored on the CD, has been resampled numerous times during production and mixing, before ending up as a 16bit/44.1kHz Redbook signal with Solomon-Reed sample correction in-built on a CD. The subsequent playback chain can degrade this signal, but what happened before it was stored on the disk doesn't concern us. The CD acts as a medium for transfer, with full signal integrity; think of the BL5s in the same way.

Here's a recap of my BL5 experiences - might be useful. Dave Moulton was kind enough to state that "soundproof seems to have a good handle on the BL5s" - it's from this thread.

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/permalink/137989/137353/ShowThread.aspx#137353

Do note that if your transport upsamples digital-to-analog to, for instance, 32/384 - and you send that analog signal to the BL5s, then you won't experience any degrading of the signal through BL5's processing - the integrity of what you hear is preserved. (Have tried this with both a dCS Puccini and an Cambridge Azur 840C).

If you want to perform full frequency band DSP and room-correction, you can still do that with a pair of BL5s at the end of the chain - it's not the automatic room calibration that makes these speakers superior. At any rate, it only affects the range from 12Hz to 400Hz.

The uniqueness of these speakers is due to a number of reasons.

1. The acoustic lenses. To get anything similar, you have to look at designs from Bolzano-Villetri or MBL, and you're then looking at a tripling of your budget to get similar sound (not better sound, similar.)

2. The four-way design, with the unique bass delivery and the homogeneity of dispersion of mid and top. Yesterday, I had an electrical engineer and loudspeaker co-developer visit for a first listen to BeoLab 5s. He was astonished at the power response, the flatness of the frequency response and at the stability of the extremely detailed soundstage.

These speakers deliver with a calibrated Sound Pressure Level within 0,25dB through the range - there aren't any other speakers on the market that are close to that. And they are upgradeable, with both software and firmware, should the need present itself.

The unique performance is a function of the dispersion characteristic and the very sophisticated timing and feedback processing with active monitoring of individual drivers, to ensure a precision that is quite unique when it comes to delivery.

As I've mentioned you'll find that Meridian is doing some sophisticated work with their top of the range active speakers, but you can do the same with BL5 with a variety of DSP options. Check out DEQX for one alternative.

3. If you want more sophisticated DSP, then just buy it, and connect it between your source and the speakers. You still get the benefit of what the BL5s are the only ones capable of.

4. There is one area where the BL5s may need modification. We're beginning to see sources in resolutions well in excess of CD (16bit/44.1kHz)

BL5s upsample analog or digital signals they receive to 24/96, and then pass that on for processing and final 32/192kHz DAC conversion before amplification. I may not be using them right, but I've not been able to get them to accept bitstreams in excess of 24/96 without suddenly getting dropouts. This means that you'll have to use them in analog mode - that is, feed them a converted analog signal. I've been testing - and this works out quite well - though I can imagine that a future version of the BL5s might be given the ability to natively process higher resolutions, up to 24/192kHz or even higher.

5. Since 98% of the world's speakers are built according to principles that were in use in the 1920s, I think the BL5s still have a way to go before we're ready to consign them to the scrapheap!

6. The founder of 2L, who is working with full resolution recording of music, and whose Blu-ray release Divertimenti is creating a furore in the audiophile world, came for a listen to my BL5s, and he was quite pleased with what he heard. He had a recommendation, as he suspected that something could be gained by adding a fifth driver - a supertweeter working above 20kHz - to the speakers. It was his experience that such supertweeters assisted the stability of the high frequencies in the audible range (up to 20kHz) and that this modification might provide icing on the cake when playing high-resolution files through the speakers. (See this month's Stereophile for their initial reaction to Divertimenti.)

It's quite a nice test to have someone who has recorded the music, and mixed it, come and listen to it on a pair of speakers ... (One comment that may surprise some was that he would like them to be even sharper in the top, above 6000Hz, in order to be true. You often hear people "complain" that BL5s are too sharp.)

I'm certain we'll see modifications in speaker designs and in how we control the frequencies produced by speakers, now that DSP is becoming more accessible and better understood -- while storage space is cheaper and studios are equipping themselves for working in the highest possible resolutions -- but I'm also certain that my BL5s will stay in my listening rooms for many years to come.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

bayerische — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:16:36 GMT

Beobird:
bayerische:
Beobird:
If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

I thought the Beolab 5 re-samples the signal anyways, since it has digital cross-overs? ... ? Then Its no idea to have a very expensive CD player. I had a Pathos Endorphin previous to my BS9000, and I was thinking of saving it to use with the Lab5's, since the look of the CD player was somewhat same as the Beolab5's look. But I didn't see any point to have a 7000e + CD player and have the signal redone by the lab5's. And having such a expensive transport is just a waste of money IMHO.

Didn't know that, but then it's a waste of money to buy a high-end cd-player

Yes, it is a waste of money to have a High-end CD player, but I don't see any negative sides to this. The whole thing just glorifies the Beolab 5's even more. Since they sound much better than my previous high-end system, which was 20% more expensive than my current.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

Beobird — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:07:20 GMT

bayerische:
Beobird:
If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

I thought the Beolab 5 re-samples the signal anyways, since it has digital cross-overs? ... ? Then Its no idea to have a very expensive CD player. I had a Pathos Endorphin previous to my BS9000, and I was thinking of saving it to use with the Lab5's, since the look of the CD player was somewhat same as the Beolab5's look. But I didn't see any point to have a 7000e + CD player and have the signal redone by the lab5's. And having such a expensive transport is just a waste of money IMHO.

Didn't know that, but then it's a waste of money to buy a high-end cd-player

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

Alex — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:37:55 GMT

Connecting BeoLab 5s via digital is definitely the way to go!

Bear in mind that any signal which goes through the BeoLab 5 will be passing through the software inside them. Connecting a CD player via Analogue is just adding in two extra conversion stages, and for every conversion stage, there is a (usually) small, but noticeable loss in quality.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

bayerische — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:33:42 GMT

Beobird:
If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

I thought the Beolab 5 re-samples the signal anyways, since it has digital cross-overs? ... ? Then Its no idea to have a very expensive CD player. I had a Pathos Endorphin previous to my BS9000, and I was thinking of saving it to use with the Lab5's, since the look of the CD player was somewhat same as the Beolab5's look. But I didn't see any point to have a 7000e + CD player and have the signal redone by the lab5's. And having such a expensive transport is just a waste of money IMHO.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

soundproof — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:32:32 GMT

This can be discussed back and forth. The processing inside the BL5s is extremely sophisticated, with digital and analog upsampling through processors from Analog Devices, prior to amplification and with a variety of signal correction processes -- I doubt there are (m)any cd-players on the market that deliver a similar result - which means that one should focus on getting a coax s/pdif signal to the speakers if your choice is a BL5.

My Cambridge Audio 840C has similar processing to that found inside the dCS Puccini, but I'm still using the coax s/pdif instead of the analog upsampled from these. Have tried both. You might want to experiment though, as I did, just to be satsified.

I have also tried using other digital cabling than that supplied by B&O - could be my ears, didn't hear a difference. I have grown to become very skeptical of claims as to differences with digital cabling. But if the manufacturer of the transport specifies 75Ohm coax, then one should use that.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

Puncher — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:29:32 GMT

Beobird:

If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

Is this true?? If you use an analogue output from an expensive CD player the first thing that happens is that it's digitised again when it enters the BL5. That makes two unnecessary conversions! Surely the spdif connection gives the best possible sound as it bypasses both unneeded conversion processes.

The BM/CD 6500/7000 would probably be the best option as you could then use them with other B&O stuff. (The CD5500 has the digital output but doesn't have the more modern powerlink connections)

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

Beobird — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:49:12 GMT

If you really want a better performance you should buy a high-end cd-player and connect it with the normal anolog din cables to the lab 5's. If you connect such a player through spdif it won't use the DAC's from the high-end player. You need a pre-amp to control the volume. At the end you will have the best performance, but you should invest at a couple of thousand euro's. Getting a Beogram cd 7000 is also a good option, it costs less and it performs very good.

Re: BL5´s and higend non B&o cd player

Alex — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:47:15 GMT

The BeoSystem 6500/7000 would be the cheapest way of getting a 'true B&O system', but TBH I think you would prefer a BeoSound 9000. There is no difference in sound when using a BeoSound 9000 vs a super-duper high-end transport along with BeoLab 5s, as the BeoLab 5s handle all of the signal processing etc...

Either that or a BeoCenter 2...