General Forum

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

mobeyone — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:28:29 GMT

People need to remember that B&O are not alone at this time in fact there is probably a very small percentage of companies who will be doing well at the moment.

Like a lot of companies, many have gone for profit over product, this has been seen in the car industry. Poor quality and unreliabilty has plagued the big names as profits soar on the back of key decisions made by boards which contributed to the above by compromising core values that the names were built on.

B&O made a huge mistake trying to compete in smaller markets with products that were simply not up to scratch for what I see as a little boost in turnover and profit.

With regards to the OP and subsequent posts, yes it is a mistake for B&O to target the rich to justify the price of their products but in a narrowing market where luxury items such as B&O will become just that, a luxury and one for the rich and B&O will concentrate on those who have the money to spend, not those who aspire to. The recent years have allowed people to spend money they would not usually have access to, products like virtuso offer B&O to people who are say not cash rich but have excess money which affords them the flexibility in managing money and allowing the purchase of an item they would have to wait. There is no problem with this but I think B&O recognises that the next few years will see this type of customer go away which will affect their expectations and as such are simply realigning their market accordingly, they need to sell to survive so it is a bitter pill to swallow to the hardcore "fan" who does not like what is going on.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Jonathan — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:38:21 GMT

I agree re desirability. Think of the impact of the innovations B&O displayed until the mid to late nineties... We were all wowed by the products back then. I think a lot of that wow factor has gone as other companys catch up. B&O used to keep ahead in leaps and bounds, now it seems to release something, see what everyone thinks and then improve on it. B&O needs to lead from the front again with their innovations, rather than their luxury perception.....

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Harry2008 — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:15:08 GMT

Just googled somethings about the actual financial situation, which dos not seems to be so good. If you take the current affairs in their main markets, the crisis in the automative industry as well as the cancellations of investments in the hotel sector, the ffuture looks bleak in my opinion...

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/Userfiles/File/Investors/BO_0805_FUK.pdf

Report early Oktober by Borsen.dk

Bang & Olufsen A/S has lost millions of kroner in the last three months. The management admits that it is uncertain whether the company can fulfil the expectations for the full financial year in the light of the financial crisis. The situation at B&O is far worse than expected by the analysts. The first three months of the company’s financial year showed a negative result before tax of DKK 58 million.

The analysts had expected a loss but not to this extent. According to a survey made by the news agency Direkt the analysts had expected a negative result before tax of DKK 2.8 million.
The B&O management and the new CEO Karl Kristian Hvidt Nielsen maintain the expectations for the 2008/2009 financial year, i.e. to post an operating profit and a result before tax on the same level as, or above, the result for the previous financial year of DKK 154 million. But things may change.
»The recent instability of the financial markets combined with the traditional seasonal fluctuations of Bang & Olufsen increases the uncertainty of the expectations,« the group wrote in the 1st quarter report.

Turnover for the first quarter was DKK 757 million, DKK 150 million below last year.
When the management in spite of falling sales expects to achieve the same result before tax as last year it is due to the plans to reduce the costs. How and when these cost reductions will be carried out will be published when the management and the board of directors present a new strategic plan at the end of October. Chairman Jørgen Worning has earlier said that the company will return to its core business, i.e. television and audio products.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Puncher — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:03:08 GMT

moxxey:
Puncher:

I'd drink with you in a bar anytime
Funny thing is....I'm up in Darlington at Christmas.
Oh god.

Watch out for a loonie "Geordie" wearing a Christmas hat!

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

moxxey — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:58:59 GMT

Puncher:
I'd drink with you in a bar anytime

Funny thing is....I'm up in Darlington at Christmas.

Oh god.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

moxxey — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:57:05 GMT

PhilLondon:
Regarding TV prices, the problem is that we compare a Beovision to other TVs. My BV7 for example.

Sure, if you use some of these 'features'. I don't use mine to play audio CDs. I use the PS3 for playing back my DVDs (Blu-rays). Sure, the stand is fantastic, but then I have to pay more for that for the priviledge. It's not part of the standard BV7 price!

The linkroom system is antiquated to me and really needs updating. Why I need a huge RF amplifier box to distribute video from one TV to another is beyond me. Worse, it downgrades Freeview or Sky HD to an analogue SD signal. Doh.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Jandyt — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:56:51 GMT

Puncher:
moxxey:
Puncher:

Hey up Moxxey - I think we agree - I'm not arguing with you. Read my post again and I hope you find we're saying exactly the same thing (other than me pointing out I am now an ex-customer)
Apologies. That's my fault for playing football tonight, drinking beer and then coming on here to post ;)
I'd drink with you in a bar anytime

Ooer, Matron!

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Puncher — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:55:10 GMT

moxxey:
Puncher:

Hey up Moxxey - I think we agree - I'm not arguing with you. Read my post again and I hope you find we're saying exactly the same thing (other than me pointing out I am now an ex-customer)
Apologies. That's my fault for playing football tonight, drinking beer and then coming on here to post ;)

I'd drink with you in a bar anytime

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

moxxey — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:54:29 GMT

bayerische:

But let's be realistic, you should not mix emotions with reason.

Completely correct. Good post. It actually scares me when people post things like we should buy B&O as we all 'love' B&O. Sod that. I'll buy something if a) I think it adds realistic value to my life and b) it suits a requirement.

This is why I keep saying that I can buy a BC2 for around £1900, connect an Airport Express and stream my tracks. I don't need to spend EUR 5000 on B&O controller (BS5) to do this. If I had a 'spare' EUR 5000 sitting around doing nothing, I'm sure I could put it to better use in this current UK recession.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

Puncher — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:53:00 GMT

PhilLondon:
Regarding TV prices, the problem is that we compare a Beovision to other TVs. My BV7 for example is a TV, a DVD player, a CD player, a surround sound processor, a 2x150 amp, a 2x150 class D speaker, controls external STBs and can pilot an external projector, and is able to distribute video around the house. A motor stand that is absolutely silent.
Add the price of all these elements from another brand, and you will not be far from B&O prices. But no integration, and crap design.
Ok, it may lack a few features and connections that would like to have. But I am still getting a lot more than I get with any other "TV".

All I would say, and I'm not arguing with your personal values, is that you assume B&O prices for all the ancilliaries that you list.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

moxxey — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:50:20 GMT

Puncher:
Hey up Moxxey - I think we agree - I'm not arguing with you. Read my post again and I hope you find we're saying exactly the same thing (other than me pointing out I am now an ex-customer)

Apologies. That's my fault for playing football tonight, drinking beer and then coming on here to post ;)

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

PhilLondon — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:47:36 GMT

Regarding TV prices, the problem is that we compare a Beovision to other TVs. My BV7 for example is a TV, a DVD player, a CD player, a surround sound processor, a 2x150 amp, a 2x150 class D speaker, controls external STBs and can pilot an external projector, and is able to distribute video around the house. A motor stand that is absolutely silent.

Add the price of all these elements from another brand, and you will not be far from B&O prices. But no integration, and crap design.

Ok, it may lack a few features and connections that would like to have. But I am still getting a lot more than I get with any other "TV".

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

bayerische — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:16:24 GMT

bsantini:
As far as luxury is concerned, B&O is not luxury to me...
It is necessity!

But let's be realistic, you should not mix emotions with reason.

I feel the same way, but paying 10X (market price for the offered technology) for the TV is not a necessity, it's shopping with emotions or too much money. And as I've seen the B&O shop, lately, that is empty, it's going to end at one point or another.

Look at Leica. I'm a long time Leica user. Leica and B&O have many similarities. High end prices, luxury, status. However lately they aren't delivering what they are advertising.

As of current economy state of the industrialized world, I'm thinking people got more acute agendas in their filofax, than paying luxury prices for not-so-luxury-products.

Don't get me wrong, I adore b&o, but they need to get their heading right.

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

bsantini — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:01:57 GMT

Of course Beoworlders are not B&O's target customer: We'll *pretty much* buy B&O no matter what.

It's the *others* that represent market-growth potential.

As far as luxury is concerned, B&O is not luxury to me...

It is necessity!

Barry

BeoFan!

Re: Something is moving on in Struer...

bayerische — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:58:50 GMT

mbee:
If B&O wants to focus only on stupid consumers who think that hugh price means high quality and that they feel good to have something that others can buy, I will simply choose another brand :
For years, a lot of us beofans and specially Beoworld try to make people understand that the price asked by B&O means something (i.e you don't pay for design over performance, that B&O can be competitive, etc). Now with some recent products (Beosound 6...), B&O have ruined all this efforts, and given reasons for people to think that us, B&O customers, pay for the brand and not for performance. Now that they have changed the CEO, I thought this would change. With this survey, the fear comes back. I don't want to have a brand at home that goes the "price for price" route.

I salute B&O for the Beolab 5. They should by B&O price terms as of current have costed 100.000 euros a pair!!!

I'm don't think you can get a better speaker-amp for the price, you get a lot for the 17.900 euro.

The beosound 9000 is a one-off product. There's nothing to compete with it. So the price is justified, in my opinion.

However... Don't get me started about the TV's... The ML, active speakers and posh design don't justify a 15.000 euro "price up" as for the BV 5, BV9.