General Forum

Re: Apple and B&O

Harry2008 — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:32:27 GMT

Did you ever get a response on this very to the point letter?

*Edit* Sorry, saw your update to late, please forget the question

Re: Apple and B&O

Flappo The Grate — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:34:12 GMT

i used to rant on and on about how bno and apple should have closer ties and for some reason bno actually thought they could compete and even beat apple

didn't help dell , that attitude

but good luck to 'em , they'll need it

Re: Apple and B&O

BeoNut1 — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:02:12 GMT

jldmelb,

Actually, I never sent it (sorry if I misled in my prior posting). I know that sounds awful in light of my empassioned cry in the letter.

I penned the letter a little over two years ago and kept updating it every so often with the idea that I'd send it when I had the time, but never did so (in part because I was contemplating sending TBS an Airport Express). Then, about a year ago, TBS was interviewed by someone here on Beoworld and I took the letter off of my iDisk account and posted it here in the forums in a thread about "questions we want asked of TBS".

The letter garnered a little response here, but I never heard back from anyone at B&O (and never particularly expected to). Also, TBS got fired.

For the record, us Apple aficianados within the B&O ranks have learned (maybe rightly so) that our pro-Apple rants apparently get a little tiring to those who don't share our views. I've noticed that most of us "more vocal" Apple guys within the Beoworld forum have toned down some, and I attribute this toning down to a realization that we're sounding like cultists and that, to a certain degree, our pleas are falling on deaf ears.

However, I still feel that what I said then (in the letter) remains relevant (actually more-so) in today's economic climate.

Though it's probably pretentious of me to feel this way, I sometimes feel like the guy who has the cure for a deadly disease, but I can't get the "powers that be" to hear my cry. I realize that that analogy is an over-dramatization, but when you really care about something (like I do B&O) that you feel is ailing, and yet you also see a fix for that something, you feel obligated to be vocal - even if it's unpopular to do so.

Part of my reasoning behind re-posting that letter was my hope (however slight) that the contents of it might be seen by the new "powers that be" at B&O.

Mark D

Re: Apple and B&O

Jonathan — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 20:05:01 GMT

Did you get a response Beonut1?

Re: Apple and B&O

plagente — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:53:49 GMT

I agree with you. B&O should wake up now !!!

B&O sound systems will not survive to the digital revolution Apple introduced to the mass with ITunes.

Don't think wealthy guys will spend money on B&O if they have much better solution elsewhere and even more if it's Apple.

Give us a superb integrated media center with a high quality of sound, bright and clever functionalities and a full and transparent interoperability with my ITunes Library (audio & video).

Even @ 6 000 Euros I will buy it.

My question is "where is THE innovation with BS 5 ?". A new cover flow user interface a la B&O ? A enhanced Genius-like function ?

When I pay for a pair of beolab 6000 or 8000, for a BS 9000 there is no real competitor with such a design and quality and such functionalities. It's exclusive in many ways.

The exclusive of the new B&O products cannot be based only on the price...

Look at what has been done with cell phone and MP3 player. Big big price with nothing justifying it -> an industrial accident !!!!

Be careful with BS5 it could the last bullet.... B&O does not generate any more net income....so I hope they will at least listen to their customers.

Re: Apple and B&O

BeoNut1 — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:54:33 GMT

OK, I'll bite. This is simply a subject that I'm too impassioned about to not throw in a blurb.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'm going to reprint a letter that I penned to TBS a few years ago (and have posted here previously) in hopes that the new CEO might see it as I feel that it encapsulates the sentiments of many of us Apple guys here in the Beoworld forum; though, I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.

Also, I have a renewed sense of urgency to express these opinions as the iPhone (which I did not envision in the attached letter) has made some of the letter's assertions all the more relevant and because it appears, IMHO, that B&O continues to miss seeing something that seems so obvious to so many of us.

Mark D

Mr. Torben Ballegaard Sørensen January 4, 2006

Bang & Olufsen a/s

Peter Bangs VEJ15

DK 7600, Struer

Dear Mr. Sørensen,

I am writing in hopes that you might briefly indulge the thoughts of one of your company’s most adamant supporters.

I am a loyal Bang & Olufsen user and have been for the past several years. I love your company, your company’s history, and, of course, your products. I literally daydream about B&O equipment. I am also a loyal Apple computer user having switched from Windows powered machines about five years ago. Over the past several years, I have sold many of my friends on the virtues of both B&O and Apple products. In my humble opinion, B&O and Apple share many similar corporate ideals and, therefore, B&O and Apple subsequently share similar customers. Both companies design simple, ergonomic, and integrated products that appeal to individuals who appreciate technology working “invisibly” in the background to make for a cleaner user experience. And, both companies value ergonomics and design more so than their respective competitors.

Though B&O and Apple certainly make a few similar products, I likewise see these two companies as more complementary to each other rather than outright competitors. B&O is primarily an audio / video equipment manufacturer, and Apple is primarily a computer software / hardware manufacturer (and soon to be media distributer). In my opinion, B&O makes the best A/V equipment and Apple makes the best A/V software. I foresee Apple’s software becoming increasingly important in the arena of consumer media consumption. I would therefore very much like to see B&O work more closely with Apple; in fact, I see any union of these two companies’ products as a way of solidifying and guaranteeing B&O’s future presence in the rapidly changing marketplace that is consumer media.

For the past couple of years, I have actually contemplated writing you and enclosing a piece of Apple equipment (a wireless Apple Airport Express WiFi hub) as I would love to somehow convince someone within your company of the elegance of Apple’s software and what I see as Apple’s plan to change the way consumers acquire music and video. I keep hesitating to do so as I realize that this would seem incredibly audacious on my part - I am not an engineer or audio / video specialist (I am actually a retinal surgeon). Also, I realize that B&O has it’s own audio / visual software, it’s own “media hub”, and it’s own mp3 player. Yet, I believe in my heart that Apple is about to change things in a very fundamental way, and I want B&O to be a part of this change.

Just to briefly outline what I see happening to the A/V market from the perspective of a well-informed consumer: I foresee Apple’s iTunes software and Apple’s wireless audio and video hubs as revolutionizing the way music and video are acquired and played. These integrated pieces of software and hardware have changed the way we listen to music in my house - we now send it wirelessly to our B&O stereos from our Apple computers. These integrated solutions are driven by a magnificently clean user interface that incorporates constantly updating software that also allows for music and videos to be purchased. And, Apple’s software allows me to do this for either Apple or Windows based computers. I have also set up this same type of home audio system for many of my friends (using a combination of B&O and Apple equipment), and I have been able to experience first-hand how much people enjoy this particular confluence of technology. Soon, we will be able to do this with video, too, when Apple releases their “iTV” product (name subject to change). I fully expect to wirelessly send movies to my B&O television in the very near future.

I believe that Apple’s market share in terms of computer users will start to significantly rise over the next few years, but (more importantly) I believe that Apple’s software and their wireless hubs will find their way in to consumers’ living rooms (regardless of which type of computer, stereo, or TV the consumer owns). I also believe that Apple will soon introduce some sort of computer based audio-video “server” that will become the proverbial and oft-promised “digital hub” that consumers have anticipated for so long. And, I believe that this digital hub will (like the iPod and iTunes) be designed for Windows and Apple machines, and (like the iPod and iTunes) become the de facto standard.

My humble suggestion is that B&O find a way to partner with Apple and start using Apple’s software (which runs on Windows and Apple machines) to power your hardware. I realize that this would represent a fundamental shift in philosophy for B&O away from “in house” software design. However, if Apple’s CEO, Steve Jobs, were to demo B&O televisions and audio systems utilizing Apple’s forthcoming “media hub” and software, I believe it would be a boon to your company that would actually make it difficult for B&O to keep up with demand. Likewise, and with all due respect, I see Apple’s software design teams as better than those of any other company (including Microsoft and B&O) as Apple is simply so committed to this vision and so good at designing the “end user experience”.

In talking with some B&O employees, I get the impression that B&O does not contemplate the Apple market much (if I am wrong, please excuse my ignorance). Part of this may be based on Apple’s seemingly meager market share, but, as I pointed out, I see this as a moot point as Apple’s audio / video software will be independent of computer type. As an aside, because B&O and Apple attract the same type of consumer, I believe that the percentage of B&O users who also use Apple computers is much higher than the percentage of Apple computer users in the general market place.

Thank you for taking the time to read my overly lengthy letter. For the record, I do realize how truly ridiculous it must sound having someone like me write someone like you and offer advice about future corporate trends. I am very passionate about both B&O and Apple, and I so desperately want these two companies’ products to better integrate. Plus, I obviously feel that some sort of union like the one I am proposing would offer future dividends for B&O as well as secure B&O’s place in an increasingly volatile marketplace. Please also know that it is not my intention to in any way denigrate B&O’s software, wireless efforts, or the Beomedia product. On the contrary, my sole impetus in writing this letter was to offer my admittedly amateurish outlook on a topic that I feel has the potential to strongly effect a company that I love very much - Bang & Olufsen.

Sincerely,

Mark J. Douglas, MD

P.S. I would love to send you an Apple Airport Express or Apple’s upcoming “iTV” product (when it comes out in a few months) if these are things you might like to personally try. I only hesitated in doing so out of fear that a package being sent from a consumer to the president of a company might not actually make it in to your hands. Please do not hesitate to contact me about sending you one of these devices - it would be my honor to do so.

Re: Apple and B&O

soundproof — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:32:05 GMT

I don't think this is an either/or situation. I have over a thousand CDs that have been ripped in lossless to a harddisk, most of these are in storage in the loft. A very few are in a cabinet, where my components are. I have a solution similar to that of the first poster, with 2-way control of the contents of my media server, and a connection to B&O front-end elements in various rooms.

However, to those stating they don't want a computer as an element in their audio chain. How do you put content on the BeoSound 5, if not with a computer? I like the physical interaction with the BeoSound 5, it's elegant and very B&O, and for many it will serve all their needs, while integrating with ease.

I'd still never let go of the flexibility afforded by my Mac-based solution, described elsewhere here, and it's worth remembering that there are literally thousands of programmers working on solutions for exploiting the capabilities of iPod Touch and iPhone, and that these will become standard interfaces for just about everything -- you'll soon get a diagnostic from your automobile on your iPhone (your car will come with one). As someone who has worked with car brands: purchase decisions between brands were actually made as to whether a brand's model had iPod connectivity integrated, or not. The cars were considered equal, and the iPod connection was the decider.

That's worth thinking about. Do you fight it, or work with it? I see mbee has posted while I was writing - we agree, B&O should work with it.

Re: Apple and B&O

mbee — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:25:08 GMT

Personaly, I think that B&O can not compete with Apple, and must interface with Apple solution, so that you can still add something up to date from the moving digital audio market to your beosystem.

Look what Sonos have done : they had a good multiroom digital audio solution, but Apple now comes close to them in terms of user benefits with the ipod remote/airport express solution. So Sonos have chosen to let the user add a bit of Apple to their system : they have developped an iPhone/iPod software that works like Remote, but for the Sonos system. It cost nothing, so for the price of an iPod, you get a new Sonos two way remote (Sonos remotes are more expensive), and even a new function : with the iPod remote, you can now access to Last.FM from the Sonos system. Great.

So now imagine what it would be like if B&O choses to do the same : instead of, or in addition to developping their own expensive and bugged Beosound 5 two way remote, they create an iPod software that add two ways to the BS5 and maybe a new function... Apple fans will reconsider B&O as an up to date firm, and users will finally get the two way controller, at no cost for those who have already an iPod touch...

Re: Apple and B&O

soundchoice70 — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:36:56 GMT

Hi,

Have to agree with you Bayerische, while I also have an Ipod, Iphone etc playing music off them never really seems 'real' to me... I actually enjoy the process of choosing a CD (unfortunately don't have a BS9000 to choose 6 ) putting it on, and just listening till the end.

Maybe we're are not old fashioned ..... Just think about movies, they said cinemas would die when VHS came out... but its more alive than ever... people enjoy the experience of going, so perhaps it is with CD (and I read just recently that some record companies are starting to release again on vinyl) that its about the whole experience....

Re: Apple and B&O

hebo — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:19:47 GMT

Just FYI I can complete with the fact that the Beosound 5 do not have a touchscreen.

You simply navigate with two aluminium rings and one aluminium handle/knob.

But I agree, I like the AppleTV very much.

Re: Apple and B&O

bayerische — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:18:17 GMT

plagente:
For an innovative solution take a look at www.sooloos.com

That looks JUST like my iMac, but with a touch screen. What an invention. Plug a touch operated screen to you itunes library and you got a similar system at a fraction of the price.

I can imagine that the Sooloo system is far more expensive than B&O. As soon as Crestron is mentioned you know you are in Oil-Sheikh territory.

Re: Apple and B&O

bayerische — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:12:04 GMT

Use what you like, I say.

Yes I agree, that especially with digital media B&O are getting left behind and are overpriced compared to what you get from other brands.

I'm an Apple user myself, and there's little chance that B&O could catch up to Apple's user interface.

I'm 27, and B&O has been on my mind since I was 14. B&O has it's grip on me, and I'm sure it has it's grip on many other 27-year-olds. So I guess I fall into the category of "young people".

I don't listen to my iTunes on my Lab5's, OK I lied, I did test the new "two-way" remote thing on my iPhone, and it was great, but I don't use it. Why? I have an extensive CD collection. 50% of my CD's are ripped in MP3 to my iTunes, but that's just for fun, not serious listening.

Call me an old fashioned 27-year-old, but I'm still getting more thrills to go into my favorite record store, pick up a set of CD's, get back home, load them all into the Beosound 9000 and my evening is saved!

Re: Apple and B&O

plagente — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:05:45 GMT

For an innovative solution take a look at www.sooloos.com

It only handles music but this is a good start for some bright ideas.

And yes the 2-way remote is mandatory.

The IPod Touch (or Iphone) Remote App is far far better than this stupid beo5.

Re: Apple and B&O

moxxey — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:51:15 GMT

plagente:
I'm not ready to pay 5 000 Euros (or more...) only for listening my music library.

The problem I have is this - deals can be done on existing B&O equipment, whether this is from your local dealer or via someone like Lifestyle-AV. For this reason, you can pick up a Beocenter 2 for under £2000 and you get a superbly designed CD/DVD playable device that will also handle radio.

Say I'm reading a book or working in my lounge, I'll stick on a good CD or listen to the radio. Often a bit of both. However, if I want to listen to my digitally-ripped audio, I grab my iPod Touch, select A.AUX on the Beo4 and I go. I don't need to move from my position.

Better still, I can even do this from ANY PC or Mac that can connect to and control the Mac Mini (hidden away in another room), choose a track and play through my BC2 - again I don't need to move.

With the Beosound 5, the biggest single issue is going to be that I have to get up every time I want to move to another digitally-ripped CD. Although I can control the volume via the Beo4 or move to the next track, I can find a track and play, without being next to the Beosound 5.

So, for this single reason alone, it would damage the integrity of the planned digital audio system. They need some kind of two-way remote. They need it from the start.

What I'm trying to say, is that for £3800 it's going to have to tick ALL the boxes, not 8 out of 10 boxes. I'd rather spend my money on other B&O kit and manage my music more effectively....particularly when I'm busy doing some work and don't want to leave my desk.

Re: Apple and B&O

plagente — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:42:10 GMT

One more thing... :-)

I'm not ready to pay 5 000 Euros (or more...) only for listening my music library. Moreover I'll have to spend hours of silly work to populate the library (especially when I see B&O software....)

Many people like me will think the same thing.

OK for the price but give us a very clever and bright product with some breakthrough innovations that will ease the transition to a digital world.

My opinion is that high speed DVD ripping and cd import is a key function and competitive advantage today to attract customers.