General Forum

Re: Sound Before Design

soundchoice70 — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:23:14 GMT

Hi,

Right you are... modernism has been with us for around 80 years. And you know what, some of those earliest iconic pieces are in use more today than they ever were in the period they were created. Just look to pieces by the likes of Mies, Eileen, Bruer and Corbusier. That is the beauty of modernist design, it's timeless appeal, and why I think B&O products with their strong (carefully designed) modern lines, unlike any other electronics company, seem to have such enduring qualities.

Well I think that we should all patiently wait and see what B&O comes up with when they launch the Beosound 5, and see if we are entering the next, new exciting chapter for the the brand.... Lets hope so!

Re: Sound Before Design

Tancred — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:51:31 GMT

I’m enjoying the tangents this thread is taking. Language is paradoxical in that words remain the same through time but can change in meaning as well. A case in point is the word “modern,” with all its various connotations. For me, the word speaks to a style, rather than referring to “the present time.” But it certainly can be used that way, and without reproach. I consider myself to be a “modern” man, after all.

But one cannot divorce Bang & Olufsen from the modernist movement into which it was born; especially the vibrant culture and history of Scadanavian modernism, which could be seen as its own sub-movement within the larger context of “modernism.” In fact, the Scandanavians had their own name, “Funkis,” which was applied to almost every facet of design, from a large building down to the smallest ashtray. And like the masters of the Workbund and the Bauhaus that preceded them, the Nordic designers loved to move from medium to medium, designing a house one day and working on a new chair design on another. That is why Bang & Olufsen “equipment” from mid-twentieth-century is so remarkably attractive and intrinsically functional. I can’t speak to the particularly Danish aspects of their work, but I’m sure they apply as well.

Again, many thanks to you all for the comments and advice. Not everyone can (or is willing) to discuss foam-rot; I'm glad you folks can.

Re: Sound Before Design

nmartin771 — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:50:38 GMT

Bravo Soundchoice70!

I'm totally agree with you in all terms, and your point is very clear.....

We discuss on one previous thread about that, and my conclusion is that David Lewis ( I love his work and think that he is great designer) is maybe to long head of design in B&O.

Every professional carrier has rise and falls and he was on top '80 and '90, now.... time has changed , and in my opinion he need to comprehend, face with it and leave like a best industrial designer of his time, otherwise people will remember him from his recent design "failure".

Re: Sound Before Design

soundchoice70 — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 06:30:12 GMT

Not all bad I agree, I hope thats not what you all thought from my earlier post.

The beovision ranges I feel are very well thought out aesthetically and have refined and elegant profiles. And as I noted I think that the BL5 / BL9 are very well designed, a perfect example of form following function indeed, not to mention sound quality being the ultimate goal! ... lets have more of that...

In terms of aesthetic design what I am suggesting (maybe not explaining my self very well tho) is not simply rehashing old designs for today, or simply being nostalgic. What I want to say is that looking to the past to see what was successful and what wasn't allows us to create better designs for the future. One of the inherent strengths of the past ranges was the designs followed, in my opinion certain consistent (and strong) design principles. Today, I fear B&O are trying to compete with a market that is rapidly changing, with other companies churning out new designs on a monthly basis. B&O cannot / should not try to compete with this, just as other luxury brands such as Mercedes spend years in the development of a product so that when the product is launched it is ground breaking yes, but also enduring.

I guess what troubles me is that systems such as the BC2 and BS4 just don't have the B&O x-factor for me, the BS9000 still over shadows them and its what 12 years old? And then products like Beo5, the oddest looking thing, completely unbalanced in terms of design....if you ask me.

Now rosewood ... well I wasn't thinking to add it to everything... just an option on the high end items! Can't help it.... as I just love it. I do however think that it is thoroughly modern material though, in fact was used extensively in Danish mid century modern design and like macassar ebony and other exotic timbers are making a strong return to current interior design as the the trend towards a luxe modern approach is now in demand.

So... I am most definitely not against good modern design... I love it, my house is all modern furniture with mid century design classics as accents, its just that it must be relevant to the product and also its market demographic.

Re: Sound Before Design

jc — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:48:40 GMT

Sentiments and nostalgia didn't make B&O great. Craftmanship did in combination with designs that were/are not only experienced as beautiful but were in fact works of art. No coincidence that the MOMA displays some B&O products. No other audio/video company comes close to that unique combination. The creation of design that proves to be timeless (but off course can always be placed in a certain period like rosewood cabinets) needs the very best of designers. (One wonders who will come next to an important person like Lewis, a tough act to follow..) However my earlier statement was ment to be positive about the recent products and designs although you need to get used to them like the lab 5's/9' s. And the complete dedication to soundquality is back in my opinion.

Re: Sound Before Design

Peter — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:24:25 GMT

Not completely convinced! B&O has to fit into modern settings and although rosewood matches my house, it is not very modern! I also do not want to see B&O making pastiches of the older equipment but to come up with new cutting edge design. I think the Beovision 5 fits in that category so not everything is bad! Buld quality is another issue though, particularly electronic design. The lack of circuit diagrams and the module replacement system is most disturbing.

Re: Sound Before Design

wonderfulelectric — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:58:36 GMT

soundchoice70:
Totally agree with all your comments regarding design….
With the risk of putting myself out on a limb, for me there havenot been any good designs in the audio range (except speakers BL5/BL9) since the BS2500 w BL6000 / BS9000 w BL8000 were launched.
B&O was the market leader both in terms of design and technology during the 60’s, 70’s & early 80’s and this was where the B&O brand legend was born! I can only concure with JC comments about the catalogues, in the 70’s they took you through the whole process and built a storey… today its pretty pictures only. The current product designs need to include a sense of this important history, with the same enduring quality, technology and iconic design.
B&O needs to bring back the careful geometry, slim seductivelines and the sense the of refined, elegant proportions of this period, all finished of course in the iconic brushed / polished aluminium and black glass, red LED/LCD panels and reintroduce the added luxury of rosewood trims to add warmth and contrast. … luxury cars still do it why no tB&O?

I think it's just very expensive to mass produce that level of craftmanship nowadays. Smaller companies can afford it but as you go larger it's just going against economy of scale.

Sound Design

Tancred — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:45:06 GMT

SC70.

It's all so true. There seems to be a dimunition in the attention that B&O places on craftsmanship as their brand becomes trendy. Am I wrong? Sure, the technical side is good, but B&O better go back to their roots. Let's have craftsmanship over total sales.

Am I wrong?

Re: Sound Before Design

soundchoice70 — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:10:41 GMT

Totally agree with all your comments regarding design….

With the risk of putting myself out on a limb, for me there havenot been any good designs in the audio range (except speakers BL5/BL9) since the BS2500 w BL6000 / BS9000 w BL8000 were launched.

B&O was the market leader both in terms of design and technology during the 60’s, 70’s & early 80’s and this was where the B&O brand legend was born! I can only concure with JC comments about the catalogues, in the 70’s they took you through the whole process and built a storey… today its pretty pictures only. The current product designs need to include a sense of this important history, with the same enduring quality, technology and iconic design.

B&O needs to bring back the careful geometry, slim seductivelines and the sense the of refined, elegant proportions of this period, all finished of course in the iconic brushed / polished aluminium and black glass, red LED/LCD panels and reintroduce the added luxury of rosewood trims to add warmth and contrast. … luxury cars still do it why no tB&O?

Re: Good Advice

Craig — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:20:59 GMT

Tancred:

Hey Craig. That "coffin" sounds like it could have been Dieter Ram's Phonosuper SK-4. Did it look like this:

Thats the one, very nice IMO.

Craig

Re: Sound Before Design

Medogsfat — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:39:14 GMT

wonderfulelectric:
You know. I think older B&O products look more well crafted and expensive as compared to the current lineup. The oiled wood the nicely curved metal bars and the old world construction of it all. You have to pay a lot more to get that level of craftmanship nowadays.

Having taken a fair few of this era of B&O apart I have to say that your comments are absolutely 100% spot on!

I too much prefer the older B&O items, not just for the beautiful sound reproduction but the craftsmanship involved too. They must have employed some pretty fine cabinet makers at the time and the quality of the veneers & materials used were absolutely first class. This is even before I mention the stunning designs!

The modern stuff - although still better than most - doesn't come close.

Chris.

Re: Sound Before Design

wonderfulelectric — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:23:33 GMT

You know. I think older B&O products look more well crafted and expensive as compared to the current lineup. The oiled wood the nicely curved metal bars and the old world construction of it all. You have to pay a lot more to get that level of craftmanship nowadays. The current lineup just looks so mass produced. Doesn't look at all different from like Harman Kardon or bose actually. I mean plastic and metal? Be more creative!

Re: Sound Before Design

Tancred — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:10:56 GMT

Or perhaps one could argue that it was sound AND design? When I think of that adage "form follows function" I think of the Germans; but in Scandinavian design, especially with the Danes, I see equal attention to function AND form; beautiful sound and beautiful wood grain. I can get lost just looking at the top of my MC40 cabinet. The wood is soooooo nice, so warm and so intriguing.

Re: Good Advice

jc — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:02:23 GMT

After reading a few B&O catalogues from 1976, 1978, 1988,1993 and the most recent one, I think the conclusion is justified that, concerning audio, B&O is now returning to it's core-business; sound-before-design, the 80s and 90s it was design before sound. Especially the 1976 catalogue is telling in this respect; pages filled with text concerning technical details and articles about technical/sound engeneering, extensive lists with specifications.

George

Re: Good Advice

Tancred — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:51:54 GMT

Hey Craig. That "coffin" sounds like it could have been Dieter Ram's Phonosuper SK-4. Did it look like this: