General Forum

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Beobird — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:10:24 GMT

There is a Classé CP-500 on the htforum.nl for 2200,- euro's ! It's including the box and the manuals so it's a very good price. You can PM me if you're interested.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Alex — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:14:11 GMT

XLR vs RCA bears no difference in determining how much of an affect the quality of the cable has on the sound. Balanced vs. Unbalanced may do, but once you get past mains-cable quality, there's no real difference, and changing the connections at either end will have no affect on this.

For a cable to have an affect on sound quality, it has to be of very poor quality.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

wonderfulelectric — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:23:20 GMT

Oh BTW. I will like to add that the quality of the cable of the XLRs are way less intrusive than that of the RCAs. Meaning you can get away with very cheap cables and yet still achieve great sound.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Alex — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:45:17 GMT

TBH, at the lengths of cable required for balanced connections to be a necessity at line level would present issues more to do with Impedance than interference. By this stage, you really would be looking at DI boxes along the chain which would allow you to achieve balanced connections anyway. To give you an idea of how much cabling this would required, I've run unbalanced microphone cables (which are approx. 60 dB lower than line level, a huge difference) over lengths up to 200m without any major issues. Balanced connections in hifi are completely wasted, so long as you always use good quality cables (although not some of the super-expensive nonsense audiophiles will persuade you to use).

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Beobird — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:20:24 GMT

wonderfulelectric:
BTW do the amplifiers in the Beolabs run in balanced mode? If they do then they will benefit greatly from XLR connections. Most high end components have XLR outputs/inputs because their components are run in balanced mode, meaning amplifying the negative and positive polarity separately which in turn means reduced distortion and noise levels.

That's true , but I have to say Alex is wright too.

Normal distortion noise trough good quality rca cables is about 0.00001% or less (don't know the exact %). Through XLR it is about 0.000000001%, but I think you don't hear the difference on normal volumes. Only on a really big house party the difference will become clear (that's why pro's use XLR). But if the processor has XLR, it's a good extra, and the topicstarter should really use it.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

wonderfulelectric — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:22:23 GMT

BTW do the amplifiers in the Beolabs run in balanced mode? If they do then they will benefit greatly from XLR connections. Most high end components have XLR outputs/inputs because their components are run in balanced mode, meaning amplifying the negative and positive polarity separately which in turn means reduced distortion and noise levels.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Alex — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:17:03 GMT

XLR connections offer no real advantage in the hifi market! When you've got a singer who's throwing a microphone up in the air and pulling it back down by the lead, then yes, you want a Neutrik locking XLR. For hifi use, this is completely pointless and will just require more specialised cables before they can be connected to a pair of BeoLabs.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Beobird — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 06:25:54 GMT

Primare SP31 (or 32 with hdmi ports) is all you need . It has got XLR connections and it looks very good too. The price is around 3500,- euro's.

If you really wan't the best you should look at Lexicon, but the MC-12 is around 10.000,- euro's

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Alex — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:41:50 GMT

wonderfulelectric:
OMG. After looking at other recent threads regarding B&O surround sound. It is incredible that B&O is still trying to minimize outward compatibilty. It's like as if they are trying to chase potential customers away. What are they thinking? Weird. In my opinion all the active loudspeakers should have XLR and the normal din inputs. XLR being the industry accepted din equivalent.

Nonsense. XLR is a professional standard. The only advantage it gains over DIN etc... is ruggedness and balanced connections, which is completely wasted on line-level signals.

B&O are not trying to minimise outward compatibility at all. I don't see how their approach to connection to 3rd party kit is much different to others. The most you ever need is a DIN > RCA. At least B&O use accepted standards - companies such as Quad use 4-pin DIN, while Naim use their own types of connections which aren't found on any other kit!

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

KingOfSnake — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:00:25 GMT

Wow thanks for the speedy replies with this - I thought I could use the line output of a pre-amp to drive the B&O speakers but will have a look at the Beosystem 3 as well - no known issues with the Kuro are there? Once again thanks!

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

soundproof — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:15:53 GMT

A BeoSystem 3 would be your best bet, if you wish to have B&O integration throughout. If you want to consider an option to that, then I'm of the "You don't say?" school when it comes to claimed excellence for various surround-sound processors/amps.

The Parasound comment above, about setting the BL5s to neutral, isn't really necessary. We've had Dave Moulton here earlier stating that there is a factory calibration reset, but this just sets the speakers to interact with a room in Struer, and isn't a "neutral" setting. The Parasound would just measure the output from the speaker-array, and then just calibrate each speaker's signal accordingly, no matter what the BL5s were set to.
If the BL5s were wildly off-target (which is unlikely, as they are adapted to the room), then you might get issues.

I have found that the acoustic lenses of the BL5s, and their exquisite resolution, make a centre speaker unnecessary in my case. I'm using a non-B&O processor which allows me to send the Low Frequency and centre-channel information to the front speakers.

Remember that your B&O speakers have in-built amplifiers. All you want to send them is a properly resolved and defined signal, and they'll handle the rest. Surround-Amps are judged on their ability to drive speakers, which will not be an issue in your case.

When I purchased that processor, the dealer knew I had been considering getting one from Classé and when I bought the one I now have, he said that I wouldn't be coming back for the Classé. And he was right - my Cambridge 540R surround processor does an excellent job with standard surround, whether from DVDs, AppleTV or other sources. Of course, it's way too cheap to be taken seriously by the home theatre cognoscenti.

However, my next processor should be capable of handling multi-channel, high resolution audio - and the 540R isn't. Look for that if you're going non-B&O in your choice of processor.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

wonderfulelectric — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:01:09 GMT

OMG. After looking at other recent threads regarding B&O surround sound. It is incredible that B&O is still trying to minimize outward compatibilty. It's like as if they are trying to chase potential customers away. What are they thinking? Weird. In my opinion all the active loudspeakers should have XLR and the normal din inputs. XLR being the industry accepted din equivalent.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

wonderfulelectric — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 01:47:40 GMT

Mr10Percent:
wonderfulelectric:
I do recommend a Parasound which has the latest digital equalizer and do have a high quality video processor built in anyhow, this will balance out the in room sound and picture quite nicely. BTW with the Digital equalizer activated, you should restore the Beolab 5s to it's original sound settings because you don't want the built in bass equalizer in the 5s conflicting with the full-band digital equalizer in the Parasound.
I see. You would really want to do this? Like replace one of the core functions BL5's because it is so adequately obsolete and there are a whole raft of systems that can now do it better?. Guess it must be the use of HMDI that makes the Parasound so much better.
All we need now is to throw the BL5's out and replace them with the more-up-to-date Pioneer SV50 active loudspeaker system so the HMDI chain is not broken all the way to the output. Perfect.
Me? Well I would stick with a BS3. also and for the record, the BC2 (Pioneer btw) with the BL5 playing old-fashioned CD's is not a bad combination and you will find that there are not so many packages out there of source/amp/loudspeaker that are as good.
10%

You have to remember it is a surround set-up so equalizing the system as a whole will be more ideal than just having a pair equalized no? Besides I am not saying that the Beolab 5s are outdated but since it is gonna be used in a surround set-up.... it makes sense.

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

Mr10Percent — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:34:07 GMT

wonderfulelectric:
I do recommend a Parasound which has the latest digital equalizer and do have a high quality video processor built in anyhow, this will balance out the in room sound and picture quite nicely. BTW with the Digital equalizer activated, you should restore the Beolab 5s to it's original sound settings because you don't want the built in bass equalizer in the 5s conflicting with the full-band digital equalizer in the Parasound.

I see. You would really want to do this? Like replace one of the core functions BL5's because it is so adequately obsolete and there are a whole raft of systems that can now do it better?. Guess it must be the use of HMDI that makes the Parasound so much better.

All we need now is to throw the BL5's out and replace them with the more-up-to-date Pioneer SV50 active loudspeaker system so the HMDI chain is not broken all the way to the output. Perfect.

Me? Well I would stick with a BS3. also and for the record, the BC2 (Pioneer btw) with the BL5 playing old-fashioned CD's is not a bad combination and you will find that there are not so many packages out there of source/amp/loudspeaker that are as good.

10%

Re: Recommended pre-amp/amp?

shadowline — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:53:59 GMT

Go with a Lexicon MV-5 processor that way you have full HDMI switching for the Pioneer and your DVD Player and plenty of line outputs to run your active speakers....admittedly you would need to incorporate an active centre channel you could use maybe a pair of Lab 3s or a single 6000 etc!