General Forum

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:24:02 GMT

I wondered when this one would come up again!

Yes, standard Powerlink cables are perfectly adequate in most cases, although you may wish to consider a few situations where something different may be worthy of consideration:-

1) Powerlink mark 1 cables (the really thin ones) often had thinner copper cores, making them susceptible to breaking with repeated movement or over long periods of time. (Not a good choice to have installed in your walls/ceiling!)

2) Cable cores in most other versions of B&O Powerlink are still comparatively thin, rarely exceeding 0.08 square mm (7 x 0.12mm) of tinned stranded copper, which builds up quite a noticable resistance over a typical cable run. Depending on the speakers being used, this can potentially alter the sound quality by reducing the voltage levels received at the speakers.

3) Powerlink mark 2 and 3 are reasonably well specified, although the coverage of the screening conductor is not perfect and you can get interference from items such as fluorescent lights when using long cable runs.

4) Original Powerlink is not a cheap option! Part of the issue is that B&O need to raise the cost to a level that sits well with their high-value speakers, part is no doubt due to the use of a ZHLS (zero halogen low smoke) sheath. I would love to know why, as this doubles the cost of making the cable, but it serves no useful purpose, as this type of sheath is normally only specified for high-risk industrial alarm cables, eg. oil rigs, underground metro stations, etc!

As an after-market cable manufacturer, I don't look to exceed B&O's prices with a "smoke and mirrors" cable to match the typical hifi approach. Instead, I think the answer is to produce cables more efficiently, improving on the areas where the original design needs development and give a sensible solution that doesn't risk degrading the sound of a very high quality audio system (and I still manage to sell my upgraded cables for far less than B&O!)

I'm currently looking for a white cable sheath that doesn't give that "cold" sound, maybe a nice warm orange cable would be better?

Best regards,

Steve.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

soundproof — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:31:54 GMT

The best test of whether expensive cables are necessary, is just to take the top off audio components.

You'll find that the interior cabling is standard grade from the connectors to the working interior -- but you'll often get claims that you should use "high-end quality interconnects" between components that use standard cabling inside the cabinet. Which really means that you're being taken for a ride.

Nowhere more so than with the Edge G-series CD player. It costs USD 9000 - and this is what it looks like.

Looks like it's worth the money?
Well, take the top off, and you're in for a surprise. That's an OEM DVD-player inside, repackaged sweetly for your listening enjoyment. And do note the cabling from the connectors to the cabinet wall. And yes - if you open it up, you'll find an HDMI-OUT from the innards, not activated to the cabinet, of course, as they're passing this off as a CD-player.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

Puncher — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:49:06 GMT

soundproof:

Puncher has the best argument. Let's all agree that B&O likes to be paid well for its products. If there was anything to all the cable mumbo-jumbo, then B&O would be supplying us with cables priced in the quintillions, but the company has integrity, and refuses to buy into the cable myths.
And myths they are - no one has yet been able to pick out a specific cable in a blind test - unless the cable had a very specific sound signature (which would really mean it was defective.)

Anyone curious to see world class egg on face can search the name Mike Lavigne here. He tested his Transparent Opus MM cables, worth USD 49.000 against Monster's speaker cables, which cost USD 250 (and that's expensive). He listened in his own listening room (considered to be one of the best in the US), to his own music, at his own pace - and couldn't identify which was which. That's just one case, but there are many.
Andy raises the other point - with active speakers, you are only transmitting the signal, and not the power required to run the speakers.
Just for the fun of it, I have tried other cables with my speakers, including some very expensive much hullaballooed digital coax s/pdif - no difference to my ears.

I thought I would reply coz, not only did you agree with me in the first instance, you also agreed with Andy (which was in fact me again) regarding the signal/power issue!

I'll sleep well tonight

You'd think I was an Engineer

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

cooldude — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:19:56 GMT

This is definately a topic that will come up every so often.

Having built dozens of speakers in the 90ies as a hobby, (Yes I am a full reconverted B&O fan now) I can with my whole heart say that the cable issue it truly is a myth. Once you hit a certain level of quality in the connector and wire that's the best it'll get. Anything more is just lost and not worth the extra money. Unless you want to hook up 5000+ watts of power, a decent cable is more than enough.

My friends still can't believe I use 'cheap' cable to my beolabs, but they are all amazed at the quality sound they produce. (though they won't admit to it......).

I still repair and recondition speakers as a hobby and for friends (now limited to B&O) and I do make my own powerlink cables to size. Most important is a good clean weld and proper shielding at the connectors.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

soundproof — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:26:15 GMT

Puncher has the best argument. Let's all agree that B&O likes to be paid well for its products. If there was anything to all the cable mumbo-jumbo, then B&O would be supplying us with cables priced in the quintillions, but the company has integrity, and refuses to buy into the cable myths.
And myths they are - no one has yet been able to pick out a specific cable in a blind test - unless the cable had a very specific sound signature (which would really mean it was defective.)

Anyone curious to see world class egg on face can search the name Mike Lavigne here. He tested his Transparent Opus MM cables, worth USD 49.000 against Monster's speaker cables, which cost USD 250 (and that's expensive). He listened in his own listening room (considered to be one of the best in the US), to his own music, at his own pace - and couldn't identify which was which. That's just one case, but there are many.

Andy raises the other point - with active speakers, you are only transmitting the signal, and not the power required to run the speakers.

Just for the fun of it, I have tried other cables with my speakers, including some very expensive much hullaballooed digital coax s/pdif - no difference to my ears.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

takktakk — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:16:37 GMT

Jandyt:
....I do think white cables give a colder sound though....

Living in Norway I can confirm the colder sound... :-D

Of course, as stated in the first reply, it matters that the cables only carry a signal to the amplifiers in the BL 1's.

Thanks for the answers. From them I get that I am to stay with the "cold" ones. But by all means - let the debate begin if anyone is of another opinion.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

fridsten — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:14:34 GMT

Jandyt:
....I do think white cables give a colder sound though....

You're absolutely correct. That's why I've stripped my cables and replaced the insulation with a very bright grey one. You can hardly see the difference, and it was a b*gger of a job to get it right. But I imagine the sound has improved ever so slightly. Especially when I have a bit of a cold and there's a full moon.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

Jandyt — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:55:21 GMT

....I do think white cables give a colder sound though....

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

mobeyone — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:48:38 GMT

Cable debate coming on!!!!

But to anwer your question and the way I see it, if there was a "siginificant" improvement from changing or upgrading cables, then I would imagine that B&O would have taken this into account.

The fact that they have stuck to a certain ethos on cables to me speaks volumes. While an upgrade from say bell wire can be seen or heard as an "improvement" anything else is simply personal......................

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

Friedmett — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:45:43 GMT

The very old debate in the world of hifi.

With B&O cables don't mean anything. You can lean back and enjoy the B&O experience/lifestyle.With B&O you don't have to tweak anything to make it perfect. Turn it on and turn it up.

Is it perfect? That's up to you to decide. For us with the Beovirus it's perfect otherwise we would not be here.

Re: Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

Puncher — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:43:11 GMT

takktakk:

I own a BV 7-40 set with BL 7-4 and BL1 on the sides. My dealer claims that the original white signal cable that he provides from B&O (or similar) is quite enough to equip this system, and that upgraded cables from i.e. Supra will not make any difference when it comes to sound.
In my pre B&O life cables were quite an issue, and it sounds strange to me that all of a sudden it is of no significance. Does anyone have a point of view or two on this?
Thank you!

Your dealer is absolutely correct - why would B&O sell speakers for several thousands of pounds and then ruin their performance by supplying sub-standard cables? Of course they don't, they cables are entirely up to the job.

(Bear in mind the speakers you mention are active i.e. the power amplifiers are internal to the speaker, and therefore only the signal is transfered from TV to speaker - in your "other life" it is likely that the speaker cables were carrying the power signal and therefore the cable may have been heavier duty).

Carry on with the cables provided, they are all that you need

Speaker cables - original or upgraded?

takktakk — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:11:33 GMT

I own a BV 7-40 set with BL 7-4 and BL1 on the sides. My dealer claims that the original white signal cable that he provides from B&O (or similar) is quite enough to equip this system, and that upgraded cables from i.e. Supra will not make any difference when it comes to sound.

In my pre B&O life cables were quite an issue, and it sounds strange to me that all of a sudden it is of no significance. Does anyone have a point of view or two on this?

Thank you!