General Forum

Re: Everything is different now ...

soundproof — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:19:16 GMT

It's like my iPod Touch - I've only listened to music through it a few times!

Re: Everything is different now ...

Puncher — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:21:41 GMT

soundproof:

The title of this post doesn's mean that peoples' lives are changed, but that the manner in which we interact with CE is different from now on.
The iPhone Remote is the top download of all the app's offered through the AppStore - that says something.
My experience is that the Apple Wireless is very stable, and that it has become progressively more reliable. Some months ago I was plagued with blip-blops when listening to radio in another room, now these are completely gone; likewise the wireless transfer of film has become flawless (though, curiously, the wireless transmitter in the Time Capsule I bought is not as good as that in the Base Station without harddrive.)
Here's what my iPhone did yesterday - and of course I was testing it out:
1. Using the parking app, I marked where I had parked the car while visiting another town, and after meandering through town I followed the directions back to the car. Perfect.
2. I used Shazam a couple more times to identify music, once for real. I can't believe how quickly and precisely it does that - a few misses, but finding Boston Pops/Arthur Fiedler/Gershwin/Concerto in F, the right movement, in eight seconds? Fantastic.
3. Controlled playback in various rooms, of both music and radio. Now that the response is instantaneous the Remote utility in both Touch and iPhone is superb.
4. I used Tuner to listen to streamed radio - try doing that with an ordinary remote.
5. And then I used the free app Karajan to test out my ear for musical pitch - some work remain to be done on my ear for musical pitch, apparently.
6. I also bought music and controlled AppleTV during the evening.
7. There are lots of background operations running, that I have now configured with the press of a button, and that show how well all these gadgets will be performing together.
Well, bla-bla-bla! The point here is that the bar has been raised through the ceiling on how we interact with Consumer Electronics - and the kind of seamless integration that Apple is offering now will become what people expect when they buy.
EyeTV will provide apps for controlling their equipment; other hardware manufacturers will do the same for their products ... the CE experience has changed, and I'm pretty certain that a few people have been asked to delay their vacations, as the ramifications are worked out.,

You didn't phone anyone then?

Re: Everything is different now ...

soundproof — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:08:10 GMT

The title of this post doesn's mean that peoples' lives are changed, but that the manner in which we interact with CE is different from now on.

The iPhone Remote is the top download of all the app's offered through the AppStore - that says something.

My experience is that the Apple Wireless is very stable, and that it has become progressively more reliable. Some months ago I was plagued with blip-blops when listening to radio in another room, now these are completely gone; likewise the wireless transfer of film has become flawless (though, curiously, the wireless transmitter in the Time Capsule I bought is not as good as that in the Base Station without harddrive.)

Here's what my iPhone did yesterday - and of course I was testing it out:

1. Using the parking app, I marked where I had parked the car while visiting another town, and after meandering through town I followed the directions back to the car. Perfect.

2. I used Shazam a couple more times to identify music, once for real. I can't believe how quickly and precisely it does that - a few misses, but finding Boston Pops/Arthur Fiedler/Gershwin/Concerto in F, the right movement, in eight seconds? Fantastic.

3. Controlled playback in various rooms, of both music and radio. Now that the response is instantaneous the Remote utility in both Touch and iPhone is superb.

4. I used Tuner to listen to streamed radio - try doing that with an ordinary remote.

5. And then I used the free app Karajan to test out my ear for musical pitch - some work remain to be done on my ear for musical pitch, apparently.

6. I also bought music and controlled AppleTV during the evening.

7. There are lots of background operations running, that I have now configured with the press of a button, and that show how well all these gadgets will be performing together.

Well, bla-bla-bla! The point here is that the bar has been raised through the ceiling on how we interact with Consumer Electronics - and the kind of seamless integration that Apple is offering now will become what people expect when they buy.

EyeTV will provide apps for controlling their equipment; other hardware manufacturers will do the same for their products ... the CE experience has changed, and I'm pretty certain that a few people have been asked to delay their vacations, as the ramifications are worked out.,

Re: Everything is different now ...

linder — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:52:07 GMT

While I agree completely with soundproof, I think we are making too much of this by suggesting that the average person's life is changed forever by advances in digital entertainment distribution and control. Nobody is going to buy the iPhone to get the remote feature. Its there if you want it. However the remote app is in the list of the top ten downloads.

My parents are in their eighties also but they do play CDs,DVDs and watch digital television. I would be hard pressed to explain to them how it all works but they accept that it does work. One tends to think that acceptance of new technologies is a matter of age meaning the younger you are the more likely you would use the internet, iTunes, and iPod type devices. Not exactly true. I recall being at the genius bar at an Apple store when a 22 year old stepped up and asked "okay I have this new iPod...how do I get the music in it". I thought it was funny but also an isolated event. I was wrong. An Apple store employee said they get questions like that frequently.

I feel the reason that everything is different is Apple markets a complete package that includes software and hardware which all work together well. If you have iTunes, iPods, Apple TV and of course a Mac, it all works. Other companies may have the software but not make the players. These things usually work well but not always. Whether you like or dislike Apple products, it cannot be denied that 1 million iPhones were sold in 20 countries in 3 days. These purchases were not all made by geeks or Apple fanboys. I am sure the competition has noticed. Bang and Olufsen should notice!

Re: Everything is different now ...

355f — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:47:40 GMT

Another point,regarding my own expereinces.

I have 2 Laptops, in different locations connected wireless for some reason the router cant recognise the PC or vice versa. Then begins the game of shutting everything down in an attempt to get the connection up and running again- sometimes this works but on many occasions it doesnt. In the end the frustration is so great I hard wire it and dont have the problems.- makes me wonder how good the i phone is at 'waking up' itself and the system

My amac lost its hard drive within 4 weeks of ownership. Its great for those that wish to embrace technology to adopt this system ; for me however its a lot of trouble and I still cant control B&O directly.

Re: Everything is different now ...

soundproof — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:28:27 GMT

Interesting, Puncher - and I do think you're right. I was in the UK recently, and caught an interview with the head of the BBC who stated that to date they had found tens and tens of different ways to connect internet-based content to televisions. He was looking for a convenient and simple standard - where an ethernet cable entered a box in one end, and an hdmi or other connector went to the television in the other. Connect the two cables - begin watching television.

He said that whoever comes up with that will own the market.

He also commented on AppleTV, which BBC has a lot of its content on, stating that he found it too proprietary, if I remember correctly. (Translation: we are really, really loath to give Apple all that power over us.)

But the box he wants is AppleTV.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Puncher — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:15:51 GMT

I’ve given this some thought overnight (sad I know) - I'll try again to clarify my point.

Reiterating a point that has been made many times before, we, this membership, are not typical members of the consumer public because of the passion for B&O and, in a larger than average percentage than the norm, products from Apple. Following from this, the case that 'everything has changed' may be true for a large number of the members however, Mr. & Mrs. average Joe, who have a all-in-the-box "midi" hifi from Currys are at this stage unlikely to be anticipating the ultimate control of their centralised or distributed Media server using an iPhone or an iPod Touch, even though they may actually have a significant collection of digital music on a PC somewhere in the house. A considerable stumbling block will be asking them to part with £199 for a remote control. Ah, you may say, but it's a phone or an mp3 player too - as true as this is, it's no consolation to the rest of the family when dad has strapped the remote to his arm while jogging around the block. As it stands it is either a personal system, whereby you can use all of your remotes other functions while out and about or you need to buy a dedicated unit for remote control only if it is to be a 'family' system. (To this end, Apple may want to consider a barebones wireless control unit with display facilities only).

Regarding the end game - I would liken it to the domestic video/dvd recorder. My parents struggled from the mid 80's with video and DVD recorders and never, never got the hang of programming. The had videoplus, barcode models etc. but I've lost count of how many times I went to their house to "have a look at the video, 'cos it must be broken". Last year, nearly in their eighties, they got Sky+ - job sorted. They can record two things at once while watching something entirely different and can't actually stuff it up! They think it's brilliant!

Now compare this to the current AppleTV, iTouch solution for digital media. My parents wouldn't stand a chance, regardless of how easy we may think it is to control. They aren't interested in looking through cover artwork, they just want Jim Reeves to sing. To make it huge it needs to loose any vestige of it's "computeriness" and become an "appliance" that is idiot proof - a single box you buy in Curry's and plug in at home and everything works in a transparent, simple and foolproof way.

In short, the end game is when whoever it may be introduces the Sky+ style digital media centre.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Flappo The Grate — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:59:24 GMT

bno seem to have woken up to the fact that they simply cannot and should not compete with people like apple

they're an entirely different kind of company

apple , as much as i love them , are more of a disposable product company while bno make things that last

tbh , it's hardly bno's fault that technology is progressing at such breakneck speeds ( in some fields - not all ) and what they make now and keep in their product line for 5+ years is made to look over priced and old fashioned

at least in speakers they can still rule the world

i'd like to see some more a/v gear , maybe a truly OTT a/v system like the bs9000 but on steroids

maybe multiple drive - bluray / dvd with bs3 built in ?

Re: Everything is different now ...

drevil2k2 — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:35:58 GMT

Well to add my $0.02 B&O + Apple = Earset 3 Picked it up shortly after getting the iphone (not 3g) and liked the A8 with the mic. Now the new iphone has a different earplug. I think the slow emergence of Apple products into our home and lifestyle is happening, whether it's the hype, design or function of the product. By having an ipod, I purchased the iphone, and now a Macbook Pro and Airport Express. I still think that Apple can improve on build quality and components, but so far, mostly happy with my purchases. As for B&O, just keep making high quality of AV equipment that is somewhat future proof.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Puncher — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:08:37 GMT

soundproof:
Puncher:

My point was more aimed at the (mis)understanding that the arrival of the 3G iPhone has suddenly enabled and released this, until now, new, unseen world. It hasn't, the world was there all along, available to those underground explorers who were willing to fight to get there. What has happened is that Apple have pointed it out it's existence to those that didn't know while selling them a vehicle to get there.
While I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I still maintain the iPhone is a triumph of marketing.
Then I was unclear in my opening post: the iPhone and iPod Touch provide a very nice interaction with your content, but the ability to organise it, in various ways, is not necessarily new.
However - Apple has developed the organising software: iTunes; created the OS; has developed the best codecs for sound and image; has created a connection to content suppliers, who provide files in accordance with those codecs; has created wireless connectivity for the playback of the same; has created a dedicated mediacentre - AppleTV - which makes ordering, storing and playback of the content even more convenient -- and tops it of with providing a fast and simple, free, remote control application which gives you two-way control of your content, existing and that you wish to purchase.
And the fact that there are now thousands of people writing applications for a device as powerful as the iPhone is going to lead to some surprising and unpredictable new products.
That's all quite a set of tangibles, I think. But I've been waiting for the one thing that will get people to go "I must have that" -- and this is the Remote control function, it makes it incredibly ease to select, direct and control your digital content.

Again I will agree in part, Apple have provided a portal for audio and video content. I'm not sure how much they were involved in the development of the .aac or .h264 audio and video codec standards, (although many of their competition in various fields were), nor the 802.11 wireless standard.

What they have done is to be first to the line as the only company so far to package it all together in an (almost) off the shelf package that is easy to use.

I'm not sure this is the end game quite yet.

Re: Everything is different now ...

soundproof — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:33:38 GMT

Puncher:
My point was more aimed at the (mis)understanding that the arrival of the 3G iPhone has suddenly enabled and released this, until now, new, unseen world. It hasn't, the world was there all along, available to those underground explorers who were willing to fight to get there. What has happened is that Apple have pointed it out it's existence to those that didn't know while selling them a vehicle to get there.
While I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I still maintain the iPhone is a triumph of marketing.

Then I was unclear in my opening post: the iPhone and iPod Touch provide a very nice interaction with your content, but the ability to organise it, in various ways, is not necessarily new.

However - Apple has developed the organising software: iTunes; created the OS; has developed the best codecs for sound and image; has created a connection to content suppliers, who provide files in accordance with those codecs; has created wireless connectivity for the playback of the same; has created a dedicated mediacentre - AppleTV - which makes ordering, storing and playback of the content even more convenient -- and tops it of with providing a fast and simple, free, remote control application which gives you two-way control of your content, existing and that you wish to purchase.

And the fact that there are now thousands of people writing applications for a device as powerful as the iPhone is going to lead to some surprising and unpredictable new products.

That's all quite a set of tangibles, I think. But I've been waiting for the one thing that will get people to go "I must have that" -- and this is the Remote control function, it makes it incredibly ease to select, direct and control your digital content.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Peter — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:30:29 GMT

I agree that we already had this system - I was using it. However the Apple system is quicker and neater and allows me to listen to music throughout the house, choosing from my entire library. I can, if I want, listen to music at the highest quality and not have the mindless search through playlists or even CD racks that I needed to do before. I have found myself listening more thanks to this. As a remote for controlling my music through my B&O system, the iPod Touch has no equal. I am afraid the Beo5 is destined to remain a paperweight.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Alex — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:17:43 GMT

Puncher:
Me being a sceptic, I can't help but think we are getting a little carried away here. While I don't want to start a MS/Symbian/Apple slanging match (Flappo behave) we need to look at what we now have that we didn't/couldn't have before.
There were remote applications for other devices , there is probably better equiped hardware (if not out there at least imminent).
Will all those folk that queued to buy one use it's remote control facilities or (the vast majority) of the separtately available apps - I doubt it, A huge number queued to have the latest and greatest gadget to be seen with and would drop it in a heartbeat if something cooler or more newsworthy came along tomorrow.
What we do have is an OK design (it was revolutionary with the iPod but is beginning to age), the first significant application of touch technology (which is now available to everyone) and Apple's marketing/hype machine.
I feel it is the latter that has excelled here. I don't doubt many of Soundproof's claims about future trends in music control etc. but will the iPhone or the iPod Touch be the only solution - I doubt it.
Don't be too harsh, I'm a nice chap really

Of course the iPod Touch and iPhone won't be the only solution, but look at what happened with the original iPod.

The iPhone design is still streets ahead of other similar 'touch' devices on the market IMO (don't think this includes the Beo5, a completely different concept o.f.c), and while it's all well and good looking at hardware, you're forgetting that Apple is primarily a Software company, and this is where their strength lies.

Re: Everything is different now ...

Puncher — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:12:14 GMT

My point was more aimed at the (mis)understanding that the arrival of the 3G iPhone has suddenly enabled and released this, until now, new, unseen world. It hasn't, the world was there all along, available to those underground explorers who were willing to fight to get there. What has happened is that Apple have pointed it out it's existence to those that didn't know while selling them a vehicle to get there.

While I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I still maintain the iPhone is a triumph of marketing.

Re: Everything is different now ...

soundproof — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:00:27 GMT

I totally agree, dilznik. B&O have never comprehended the brand overlap that exists between B&O and Mac customers, and the latter have always been treated more as an annoyance than as a serious market - to B&O's loss, I'm convinced.

I can't agree with Puncher above. This is not hype - this is disruptive technology and will become the de facto platform for playback of music and video. Having been a Mac customer for ages I am quite clever at spotting their hype, if anything, they have undersold the iPhone and iPod Touch capabilities that are emerging -- probably to be able to get enough units out there before the competition realises what's happening and comes up with an alternative.

What Apple has done is create a chain from the developers of content all the way to the consumer, placing all the content at the user's beck and call - in superconvenient fashion. Yesterday my daughter wanted to watch Definitely Maybe using AppleTV. She chose the film, it began downloading, and she was watching it within two minutes -- booking the film, paying for it, loading it to the computer and initiating playback was all sorted with two-three clicks of the remote. That can't be hype - it's real. And the fact that I can now control all my purchased and transferred (from CDs, etc.) content with my iPhone or iPod Touch is unbeatable.

All you need from your Mac setup is an hdmi-cable, or an optical and DVI cable, going to your B&O. Hide the Mac stuff, if you want - but you won't find another media centre on earth that delivers similar performance, no matter the price you're willing to pay, seriously.