General Forum

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:02:59 GMT

Removed the ML from the 7 last night and left the tv on when I went to bed but was off when I got up this morning , so appears it's not the ML . The B&o engineer is calling in after lunch , I ask if there is anything else that can be tried before they exchange it on Friday .

I mentioned the grief I had with mice in the past stripping cable insulation , they like plastic water pipe too . I don't use it my self , prefer copper but talking to a Plummer friend he has know them to attack the fittings with obvious results .

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:47:11 GMT

Richard,

Well, with only 1 volt between neutral and earth, that's good. It is also good that your cottage (well some cottage with 22 rooms) has been rewired.

Has the Beovision 7 failed since you removed the Masterlink cable ?

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:16:37 GMT

A few technical long words would be very impressive while I pretend to know what I doing ?

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Jandyt — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:24:34 GMT

a2bur:

I also got an oscilloscope , haven't got a clue how to use it , the wife doesn't know that and thinks I very clever .
Richard

Sorry to interupt, but that's hilarious Richard!

Andy T.

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:23:34 GMT

Only shows 1.03 ( neutral to earth ) , live to neutral 228 volts . The main supply is PME system , although my cottage is quite old the wiring is modern with rcd's so any live/neutral imbalance or earth problem the rcd's should drop out . It's a big property with a lot of wire in it , 22 room's ( B&o in most ) and has a few sub consumer units for different parts of the house . I've had mice problems in the past they seam to like the grey flat ring main wire , a few years ago one got into a BeoCord 5000 and ate the internal wires then had the belts for desert .

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:49:53 GMT

Richard,

Its not really the voltage drop which is going to cause the problem and it would have to be a big drop to stop the Beovision working, but if it were big enough it is likely it would effect other products as well.

Let me explain. All power generated and distributed in the UK starts off as "Three Phase" you must have seen the signs on the power lines saying 415 volts, well that is a phase to phase voltage. The Electricity company need to try and keep these phases balanced and if one phase draws more current than one of the other phases, then the virtual "Neutral" will have a potential difference with earth which we do not want. In modern homes built in the last say 20 years earth and neutral are bonded at your meter meaning unless you have a wiring fault in your home the voltage between earth and neutral will be around zero.

However in older properties this was not the case and hence why I am suggesting measuring between Neutral and earth.

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:34:55 GMT

I'll try and get a reading with a meter .

I haven't noticed a power dip when it turns off like the lights dimming , sometimes get a voltage drop in the depth of winter especially when it's windy but not this time of year . I do run night store heaters to keep my parrots warm in the winter and are still on till it warms up a bit . They are not connected to the house , the supply is split between my house the averies a field away and each has it's own meter , although I do know when these heaters come on and off ( 6 x 3.3 Kw. ) as the house lights let me know as they do pull the voltage down a bit but it doesn't coincide with the Tv problem , they come on at 11-30 pm till 7-30 am . How much of a voltage drop should this TV tolerate ?

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:17:47 GMT

Richard,

After giving this further thought based on your last key statement, I think you either have:-

A problem in the "Power Factor Correction" circuit in the Beovision power supply OR;
There is a phase lead or lag on your mains power causing a potential difference between neutral and earth.

If you have a multimeter set it to the AC range 200 volts. Connect one lead to the neutral (left pin) of the mains plug and the other meter lead to the earth pin. The voltage should be zero at best and no more than a few volts at worst. If it is a large voltage (greater than 20 volts), then we are onto the problem. If you do not have an auto range multimeter you may need to lower the range step by step manually.

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:55:41 GMT

Richard,

You have made an important statement in your last post which throws a whole different light onto the situation. You said:-

"Forgot to add when the 7 shuts itself off you don't get the curtains , it's a hard shut down , screen goes black and no stand-by light for 10 seconds"

So, it shuts itself down as if there were a power fail, this in my view is a key point.

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:41:13 GMT

Just pulled out the ML from the 7 and cannot now get sat in the kitchen ( Bv6 ) , it makes no attempt to get it when instructed ( V-aux is the command ) stays on normal TV , not a even flicker , have done a tuner scan but can't find it , not surprised though with the ML out . Forgot to add when the 7 shuts itself off you don't get the curtains , it's a hard shut down , screen goes black and no stand-by light for 10 seconds . Whatever to tv was doing when it shut down ( say sat ) you cannot bring it back to life with a sat instruction , you have to pick something else like freeview or terrestrial then go to sat.

Richard

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:08:35 GMT

Hi Keith . I'm inclined to think it's not the set . I live in a cottage in the country with a shared overhead supply next door . The problem started after a week ( had the set about 6 weeks ) and after a installing previous versions of software backwards from 4.12 twice to see if that cured it , it started again after a week each time . Got a sony ps3 and Sky HD connected , also a camera system via old vhs player with scart ( parrots ) . Also got a B&o RF link amp.box , but no Galvanic Isolater ( the coax is earthed to the house circuit ) to give sky on the Bv6 as the 7 doesn't have a modulator . I've got a multimeter if you can give me some instruction . I also got an oscilloscope , haven't got a clue how to use it , the wife doesn't know that and thinks I very clever .

It's a bit strange that when it shuts down and the Bv6 stops getting a signal I cannot get it back again via the 6 by pressing sat , I have to start the 7 first and then press sat on the 6 to restore it , it's as if the 7 ignores the link commands after it has shut the system down and is the only way to get the link feed working again .

They phoned my this afternoon to say they will exchange the set on Friday but I will disconnect the ML now , but the wife won't be too happy if she can't have sat in the kitchen while she peels the potato's for tea .

[:'(]

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:22:40 GMT

Richard,

I would be very surprised if there is anything wrong with the Beovision 7, this is much more likely to be caused by earth imbalance directly linked to mains load.

What kind of property do you live in ? in other words, is it a flat where the mains coming into the building could be shared or are you in a detached house with its own supply?

You say "After about a week" do you mean you have only had the Beovision 7 a short time ? and the problem appeared a week after you took delivery ?

Have you unplugged the Masterlink plug from the Beovision 7 to see if the problem still exists ? if not I suggest you do that.

Is your Beovision 7 connected to a Cable, Freeview or Sky STB and if it is connected to a Cable STB, has the incoming coax line been connected through a Galvanic isolator ? If you do not know what a Galvanic Isolator is, then click HERE and it is shown about half way doen this FAQ,

Are you a technical person who could take some measurements with a multimeter ?

Re: Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:41:22 GMT

After about a week it started to turn itself off , there is a ML to a Bv6 and a BS7000 with MCL to ML converter ( no timers set ) , this problem is there even if the ML equipment is on or off , also if the 7 is off and the 6 on say Sat the 6 would loose its feed and couldn't get it back unless you put the 7 on to Sat then press sat on the 6 to get the feed back again , you could turn the 7 off again if you wanted . It is a bit predictable and seams to be 6-10 in the morning but not today or yesterday ( I'm an early riser ) and around midnight ( late to bed also ) but does it a sometimes during the day , the boiler comes on at 6 and have changed that but no difference . They changed the software but still did it after a week or so and usually about once a day , there are errors in the service menu but they didn't know what the mean ( though they could contact B&o to find out ??? ) . Last weekend It switched off twice in the daytime and wouldn't turn on again , it ignored the remote and had to do a power off reset .

They seam to think it's a ML problem but easier to get a replacement than sort it out . They haven't threatened me with a bill if it's not the Tv but seams a bit extreme to replace the set without eliminating other possibilities .

Richard

Re: Power recorder

Keith Saunders — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:55:44 GMT

Whenever I have to fault find mains problems, then I hire a Dranetz. You can see details of them HERE

They can be hired from several places including HERE I would expect B&O to have one of these as there are a lot of power and earthing issues today.

What is the problem with your Beovision 7-40 ?

Power recorder

a2bur — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:45:00 GMT

Anyone know of a power recording device that can be put in the feed so I can tell if the electricity is briefly dipping or dropping out to my 7-40 .

I'm having a replacement set a week on Thursday because of a turning itself off problem , had it for about 6 weeks and now it won't switch on again without a power down reset . They only have so long to get a replacement from B&o if faulty after that time it has to be repaired , they didn't know what else to try except have it in the workshop for a unknown period so have put a claim in to replace it . Be nice to know for certain that it's the set at fault .

Richard