General Forum

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Christian — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:37:54 GMT

Just wanted to ad two extra points

1)
Since the millenium we have witnessed a TV rally, where most brands have made their buyers focus on contrast ratio, HD/Full HD, response time etc. making the consumers believe, that good specs. made the picture great. If you hear that your TV has the most updated set of specifications, most people don't think that picture quality can be found better anywhere else.

2)
Then some people look at the BV-7 they think: "Old model, has been around for years. I saw it once at my dealer in 2004, and picture was bad. Why don't they come out with a new model?!" - Not realizing that the insides of the BV-7 has been update several time. It is still the same model and outer casing, which might fool the costumer.

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Christian — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:12:41 GMT

jk1002:

...
if we are where we are because resources were pulled out of TV development to mobile phones, then this is definitely a mistake that needs to be fixed.
...

This could be a part of the reason, however I think that the resources invested in CarFI is the main problem. The CarFI or Automotive project was started around year 2000 and have drained the cash. This will always be the case with a new project, but here timing has been bad. It left B&O without the capacity to produce enough BV7s when demand was high, and they have been unable to invest was is necessary in TV picture improvement through the last years of upswing and technology advances. Sure the CarFI will be a good investment, but how the upswing has passed, and they have almost just begin now to install a serious number of SoundSystems in cars.

They have however put money into development of new TV designs. Remember the '80-'90, years of LX and MX only. Now: BeoVision 4,6,7,8,9 in various sizes. With BeoSystem 3 they have just began to keep up with technology, but picture improvement needs to be implemented faster through out the whole portfolio.

If the Avant has been out for sale today, it would have cost 8.200 € with a 4 % price increase each year. An equal TV today would be a BV7-32 on motor stand with two BL4000s instead of the BL7-1, here the price is 8.600 €. This is why I do not think they must reduce prices, but improve picture quality THOUGH OUT the portfolio.

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

jk1002 — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:10:30 GMT

Did anybody else noticed that Loewe had 9% growth in 2007, this year they expect 7%. They are saying that a lot of this comes from very large TVs & Product Portfolio is key.

B&O needs to focus on keeping the TVs up to date. And they need to strive much higher for picture quality in the high end range BV9 and BV4 since there are complaints. That BS3 does not support most current projectors officially is a joke. That the BC6 and BV7 32 do not have multiple HDMI yet too. The BV8 should have had more then one and optional surround to make it appeal to a broader range. This was the main complain and even if it is the cheapest TV in the range, it is still a lot of money. Cinema Module should be an option for all.

Make it modular, make the customer pay. Offer a TV for the Video Freak with super picture, offer a TV that integrates for the audio freak. Make it small, make it large. if we are where we are because resources were pulled out of TV development to mobile phones, then this is definitely a mistake that needs to be fixed. A high end Audio System matching the BL5 should be there as well.

Lastly, that they managed to integrate the Apple TV so nicely, that deserves huge kudos. Despite everything else, here they show clearly that they support the customer requests when they can. Even though it undermines their own products as ATV goes one on one against the Beomedia.

German Press Release below

http://www.loewe.de/download/pm-bilanz-pk_2008_final.pdf

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

beoaddict — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:10:57 GMT

Bingo:

You don't expect any price reductions? Well, I think they don't have any choice. Bang & Olufsen is losing more costumers every day. In the Netherlands, every year more B&O dealers vanish ....

Bingo: I love the over-priceing. Keeps it relatively exclusive. Would hate it if my staff would be able to buy the same TV as I have.

and with respect to vanishing of Dutch dealers: maybe some of them merge into a larger one?

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Craig — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:15:39 GMT

Stonk:

That to me is what B & O should be. Any manufacturers system will give that tickly feeling when it's new to you but only very few will still be doing it in 3 years time. I'd always pay a premium for that. Trouble is that there's only a few items within the current range that I think could give me that feeling - and none of them are TV's.

Every morning when I come downstairs my BV3 still looks fantastic after 3 1/2 years. Thats without it been turned on. Not many other TV's you can say that about. We have recently been thinking of changing for a BV8 but I don't think it will have the same effect after 3 years the more I think about it.

Craig

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Stonk — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:34:57 GMT

I bought a brand new BC8500 & MX5000 TV in the late 80's. I was only 20 something. I too was thought mad. I still have the 8500 & it gets wow's not only when visitors see it for the first time but a small silent one from me when I play with it. The MX had been shipped off to my parents in France and has recently died but did give sterling service all these years. Still looks cool.

When I think about all the tv's & stacking hifi's my friends have been through throughout the time I had the above I'd hate to think how much they've spent.

That to me is what B & O should be. Any manufacturers system will give that tickly feeling when it's new to you but only very few will still be doing it in 3 years time. I'd always pay a premium for that. Trouble is that there's only a few items within the current range that I think could give me that feeling - and none of them are TV's.

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Flappo The Grate — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:37:58 GMT

yep , the bv3 and avant were easily worth the outlay as they were excellent highly specced tv's that wiped the floor with the competition

i had a sony wega before my avant and that was supposedly the ultimate crt tv

not compared to a bang & olufsen crt , believe me !

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Craig — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:34:34 GMT

joeyboygolf:
Bingo:

I suppose I am a bad student because I will never understand
There were people who couldn't understand when I paid a tremendous amount of money for a Beomaster 1900 in the late 70's or why I paid around £1100 for a Beocenter 9000 in 1986 or why I paid loads of money for RL140's a couple of years later.
There will always be people who can't understand. Shame!!

Graham, I know exactly what you mean. When I paid just over £3000 for my BV3-32 moct people thiught I was mad. One person I worked with had purchased a complete surround sound system and 32" TV for what I paid for the stand for the BV3. Well I know why I did and would expect your reasons were the same.

Craig

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Flappo The Grate — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:30:27 GMT

i don't mind paying top whack when the products are worth it , the beolab 5 springs to mid in the current range , the avant and 8k's in the old days and the stunning top end beossystems and beocentres of the good old days

however , i DO object to paying at least a grand over the odds on junk like the hdr-2 and dvd-2 which are nothing more than rebadged and crippled 3rd party boxes

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

joeyboygolf — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:49:21 GMT

Bingo:

I suppose I am a bad student because I will never understand

There were people who couldn't understand when I paid a tremendous amount of money for a Beomaster 1900 in the late 70's or why I paid around £1100 for a Beocenter 9000 in 1986 or why I paid loads of money for RL140's a couple of years later.

There will always be people who can't understand. Shame!!

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

wirralsimon — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:26:11 GMT

Bingo

One thing we have in common is that neither of us will be paying 1600 euro for a B&O flat panel. But we probably wouldn't be paying 8,000 euro either, in my case because I don't have that kind of money to send on a TV

It will help if you can get your head around the fact that high-end products will hardly ever justify themselves in bang-per-buck terms, that goes much wider than AV. Some people will find the extra for the high-end it is worth it for them, most will go for the cheaper alternative. It need not be a problem!

I agree with comments about the need for innovative new products though.

Simon

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Bingo — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:58:55 GMT

I suppose I am a bad student because I will never understand

I don't think you can be taken serious nowadays when you ask 16000 euro or more for an little above average 50 inch plasma picture. It is a price outstanding every A-V market rule in my opinion. You have now 50 inch plasma televisions with the same picture quality (PZ800 from Panasonic) for around 2500 euro. The pricegab has become to almost everyone not understandable. Then you have a big problem as a manufacturer.

I really really think that if they don't come with an answer to the big group of costumers with a bit more income then average that want a big flatscreen for a reasonable price, that it is over for Bang & Olufsen.

I waved goodbye to Bang & Olufsen for buying a tv a few years ago. For more then 20 years, I bought nothing else then a Bang & Olufsen tv. I think i am not the only one in that group of people. Just don't understand the price anymore compared to the other brands and that makes my decision. Even If I would be rich, I still would't understand it better so my choice would be the same. But time will tell ofcourse who is right.

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

Karel Uyttendaele — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:56:03 GMT

Bingo:
I agree. The new strategy must be: Away with the extremely overpricing !!

Again... Lowering the prices will not resolve the problem! But I'm repeating myself.. so I won't go into details

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

soundproof — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:32:54 GMT

The Netherlands has over a hundred dealers, I'd say that's probably more than needed. If any are closing it could even be a part of B&O's strategy of ending shop-in-shop to go for exclusively operated B1 stores with B&O only.

http://www.beoworld.org/dealer_view.asp?cid=NL

I think the dearth of new products is a lot more serious than the price level of the existing ones.

Re: Another one leaves the ship !

moxxey — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:28:08 GMT

Bingo, EVERY company lose customers every day. B&O's problems aren't prices, they are lack of new products.

Where are the new products? Ok, a few minor updates recently (BV7-40, BV4), but the long-awaited BeoMaster 5 delayed and few other new products expected soon. Apart from the BL10, I can't remember anything planned this side of Summer?

I posted recently, that apart from the BV8, I visited a London-based store recently and they had the same products on display that they had nearly 12 months ago. They'll have the same products on show in June, too.