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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 09-06-2011 7:47 AM by Jonathan. 26 replies.
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  • 07-06-2010 1:16 PM

    • Stan
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    BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    I've never owned a BV, and always thought they cost silly money.  I have also not paid much attention to video technological developments as I really didn't care that much to follow the rapid shifts in panel technology.  I would not consider myself a video-phile.  I'm quite happy with my cheap Toshiba LCD (except that it is breaking down after less than 2 years).  It seems to have a nice picture, and with my self-programmed Beo5, I have a fairly integrated, one remote solution.

    However, now that they're selling the "value priced" BV8-40 here in the States (and my cheap Toshiba doesn't want to turn on consistently), I am considering a purchase.  When I bought the Toshiba, I decided to get something cheap as it will be obsolete in a year or two anyway (which it is).  I'm still leaning toward this, but am also thinking that perhaps, BV8-40's technology is "good enough", and that we're reaching "diminishing returns" in the way of future picture improvements.

    What do you folks who follow video technology think?  Is it too early to make a long term investment in a TV?  Is there new technology "just around the corner" that will make cause me to want to junk my $5K TV in a year or two (3D (with glasses) doesn't excite me)?  Is there that much difference between the BV8 picture and the newer LED lit screens (or does the latest BV8 have one of these more advanced panels)?  5K is still a lot of money to spend when I see Sony's and Samsungs offering all the latest wizbang tech for ~1500.  I'm not really interested in that wizbang stuff (wireless internet, streaming from PC, not really interested).  We just want a basic TV with a good picture that will last more than a few years.  Integration with existing B&O investment is a big plus.

    I'm also not sure why I'm having such an issue spending 5K on a TV.  I've spent much more on audio equipment through the years, but the TV probably gets more hours of use per week (not necessarily by me, perhaps that's the key Smile).

    Thoughts?  Comments?

    Thanks,

    Stan

  • 07-06-2010 2:10 PM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Have been going through exactly the same process, and what stops me at the moment is the inevitable progression onto LED LCD technology which seemed at first a risk free technological step! To hear that the 8 has a Sharp screen didn't put me off but why would i buy the B&O over the Sharp. The sound from the "sound pit" would if, just considering its size be better but at £5,000 it should be a whole lot better as well as cosmetically beautiful.

     Although growing on me the 8 is not the looker it should be in my book, and it can be done if you look at the latest Samsung screens at around £1,500. Then there is the problem of scanning round the showroom and seeing a 7-40:-((((((((((((((((

     There is a place for an 8 in the B&O range but with its older panel, and less than cosmetic looks i don't believe the current one will go down as a classic. Give us a 40 inch LED LCD panel with a good "sound pit' rapped up in B&O styling and some suitable processing and they would have a winner. £5,000 is too much considering how well the cheaper brands are catching up the premium ones. We have an LG 32 LCD screen in a conservatory for the "kids" PS3 and its bloody good for £350(and doesn't look cheap). Add my wifes Bose pc speakers and subwoofer and hey presto. Who knows

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 07-06-2010 2:16 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    1080p .mkv via WD TV HD is 10/10

    Blu-ray via LG BD390 is 10/10

    Cable HD TV is 10/10

    Sound is 9/10 (better than BV10!)

    BV 8 is great TV.

    3D TV = Ick!

    A.Wink

    BS 1, BeoCom 2, 2x LC 2, Form 2,  BS 2, BS 3, 2x Beo 4, BS 5, BM 5, BL 5,Beo 6, BS 6, 2x A8, BV 8-40, BL 8000, 3x A9 Keyring, Serenata, BeoTime, BeoTalk 400

  • 07-06-2010 3:25 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    i have to side with alen i was the same when it came to the looks of the bv8-40 but over time the more i saw it the more it grew on me.

    the picture is like nothing i've ever seen before, the thing is i still feel like the picture processors in b&o tvs are still in a different league to the competion.

    when i had my demo of this tv i was just sitting there in awe of how pristine sharp vibrant and clear the picture quality was and i'm yet to see anything that has bettered it. 

    it just reastablished how different other brands are when it comes to picture quality. now i'm not knocking any other brand as i have a 47" full hd philips lcd which is briliant but my eyes appreciate a good picture and i just feel the bv8 has a flagship picture.

    i also read a review for this tv which was prasied highly for its picture and sound quality which is something very special. the amount of bass this tv can put out is amazing.

    as for the screen it uses i'm sure the bv8 uses a samsung ultra clear panel which is a glossy screen. the sharp screen which is what my tv uses is semi glossy i could be wrong but i'm sure the panel is a samsung.

    if i had the money i would get the bv8-40 in a heartbeat the bv7 has always been my dream screen but i feel like the bv8 isn't that bad of a comprimise. iam not interested in 3d i have seen it and although its not that bad i don't have a need to go out and get it.

    i kinda of feel that the bv8 has a uniqueness and minimalism about it and look which is all its own.

  • 07-06-2010 3:32 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    In what aspect(s) do the LED LCD panels excel?  What should I look for when comparing the BV-8 vs. a newer technology panel.  Is it a subtle difference or is it very noticeable (once you know what you're looking for).

    I was watching a World Cup game on the BV-8 a week or so back, and I thought it had very crisp picture with none of the "pixelation" that I see on my TV with fast action.  I wanted to see a movie to see if I could see the "soap opera effect" I've heard about, but they didn't have a DVD player connected as they just got it setup in the store.

    I kind of like the look of the BV-8, and don't want a BV7 as it is too "look at me" for the room (and too expensive given that I have no use for the integrated BS3).

    Stan

  • 07-06-2010 6:39 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Stan:
    I'm not really interested in that wizbang stuff (wireless internet, streaming from PC, not really interested).  We just want a basic TV with a good picture that will last more than a few years.  Integration with existing B&O investment is a big plus.

    I/we love our BV8 (-32) which we bought as a stop-gap measure a year ago ... I just wish I had bought another this year when B&O-AU had a sale!

    Interestingly now that I have the BV8 hooked up with LinkPlayer our viewing and listening habits have changed ...

    We watch less free-to-air and less paid-subscription-FOXTEL ... and we watch more DVDs and download materials.

    I have become a bit of a music video clip junky as well as then I am enjoying both video and audio together!  And that includes making rips of my music DVDs so that with a few clicks of the Beo4 I am in Paris with Diana Krall or Amsterdam with Katie Melua or Red Square/Shea Stadium with Paul McCartney or the Tuscan Hills with Andre Botticelli ....

    And with LinkPlayer in control SWMBO now happily uses the BV8 to play her Opera playlists all day ... having a visual guide has made life so much easier for her

    So I would heartily endorse the BV8 for you AND encourage you to invest in the Beolink integration AND look seriously at attaching an inexpensive Apple to give you increased convenience and broader access to all sorts of media 

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 07-07-2010 8:49 AM In reply to

    • John
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Stan:

    In what aspect(s) do the LED LCD panels excel?  What should I look for when comparing the BV-8 vs. a newer technology panel.  Is it a subtle difference or is it very noticeable (once you know what you're looking for).

    I was watching a World Cup game on the BV-8 a week or so back, and I thought it had very crisp picture with none of the "pixelation" that I see on my TV with fast action.  I wanted to see a movie to see if I could see the "soap opera effect" I've heard about, but they didn't have a DVD player connected as they just got it setup in the store.

    I kind of like the look of the BV-8, and don't want a BV7 as it is too "look at me" for the room (and too expensive given that I have no use for the integrated BS3).

    Stan

     

    The latest 'state of the art' feature in LCD panels, is LED backlighting with local dimming, and backlight scanning, or 'blinking' as Sony calls it.

    Essentially, the picture engine reads the video signal, and dims or brightens local parts of the LED backlighting of the panel, so as to achieve a higher contrast ratio in the picture as perceived by the viewer - and which of course is measurable.  Additionally, to smooth motion blur, or pixel lag, frame interpolation techniques are used, along with switching the backlight on and off between frames, (or blinking) so as to smooth the motion to the eye even further.

    This sort of technology is used in for example the latest HX900 series Sony LCD panels, and in the B&O 7 - 40 & 7 - 55.

    The BV 8 series, uses 'older' technology in that the backlighting is CCD, or cold cathode display, i.e. fluorescent.  Accordingly, because no local dimming or brightening of the display can take place, the measurable contrast ratio will be slightly lower than the aforementioned LED design.  However, the BV8 series does use frame interpolation techniques to smooth motion/pixel lag.

    In practice, it is hard to say just how much difference these technologies make - certainly here in Australia B&O are sold in 'boutique' stores, so making a direct A/B comparison with another TV brand is not possible.

    Others will hopefully have more technical knowledge than me and be able to comment, but I'm inclined to feel that the most important part of an LCD TV's performance is the picture engine, followed by the panel and the technology that is used.  Certainly B&O use Sony/Samsung panels, and may use other makes of OEM panels as well.  However, in the 7 series in particular, the picture engine used is proprietary to B&O and patented; certainly it is (subjectively) the best LCD picture I have ever seen.  

    Just what aspects of that picture engine are used in the BV 8 series, I'm unable to say, but putting aside the technology, I think the BV 8 picture is very hard to beat.  One may be able to buy a cheaper set with the latest panel technology (e.g. Sony HX900) and extra HDMI connections etc, and even 3D plus internet connections, but at the end of the day would it offer a better picture overall?  After all, once you put aside the technology used, it is the picture performance that one wants - the bottom line as it were.  

    And then there is the famous B&O look/design, the range of accessories to place the TV on (try finding a slimline cabinet, or even slimmer aluminium stand to place a slim flat panel TV upon, in the mainstream market) and the use of active speakers means not only a better TV sound, but can double as a centre channel in a B&O surround sound setup, obviating the need for a bulky wooden/other material box centre speaker.

    In that context, the BV 8 is very much a finished solution - superb picture, placement options and sound - a compelling package in my view.

    HTH

    Kind Regards

    John... Smile

    No-one ever regretted buying quality.

  • 07-07-2010 9:41 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    JOhn,

    well put and argued. 8-40 certainly grows on me and resonably good value for money picture quality is good.

    the 7-40 uses similar panel to 8-40 rather than LED backlighting

  • 07-07-2010 9:55 AM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    But will soon have a LED LCD panel no doubt and this is my problem. The contrast is in a different league. As of next year all Sony tv's will only have LED LCD panels!

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 07-07-2010 12:29 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    just to add also that the bv8-40 has visionclear processing, in there 2010 brochure it states that and i feel that it shows in the picture quality.

  • 07-07-2010 2:12 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    The BV10 has LED LCD panel, right?  Therefore, I can look at the BV10 to see what I am "missing" with the BV8, right?

    I looked at a couple LED LCDs at Costco last night and wasn't impressed. 

    Stan

  • 07-08-2010 4:58 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    The BV10 has an edge-lit LED LCD panel... Which has absolutely no advantage over a CCFL backlit LCD panel such as the BV8 (just a bit of power consumption, and that's all).

    The difference you will see between BV10 and BV8 images will only be the panel difference between a Sharp and a Samsung behind a contrast screen. Thanks to the contrast screen, the BV10 image is more... Contrasted. But you have more reflexion. It's a matter of taste, not a matter of more advanced technology.

    Concerning fulld LED backlight, there's a real advantage on contrast, but today's technology is just not mature enough and the drawback of that technology is that you end up with less details on the image, and halos on contrasted pictures... Full LED panels will only be interesting when there will be more LEDs behind the screen, in order to control more precisely the backlight.

  • 07-08-2010 5:05 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    PS : I'm just in love with my BV8 40... Simply the best value for money on the B&O range, and a quite good value for money against a comparable Kikinoko set (screen+5.1 processor+central speaker).

    What surprises me is that almost every people coming in my livingroom says "wow! beautiful design TV, must be a top brand, not a Samsung/Sony!" : it doesn't have to be full aluminium+glass to impress! (At first I was just not impressed by the design, and mainly bought in order to have outstanding picture and sound quality at a bargain, but finally I really like the way it's discrete, but different).

  • 07-08-2010 5:35 AM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    LED LCD has a far better contrast ratio than any backlit Plasma/LCD screen.

     If it didn't why would B&O have gone to all the work of using it in their latest 3 televisions? 

    7-55 LED, 10-40&10-46 both LED, doesn't make sense and the figures back this up. Are Phillips and Sony so wrong in stopping all backlit LCD screens with almost immediate effect?

    Trust me whenever i visit one of our local stores i am amazed by the quality and image of the Beovison range, especially the 7-40 and 55 but i feel that LED is simply the maturing of what is now a fairly well established technology. And that is what stops me buying one at the moment. I know this can be applied to all parts of our lives which is probably why i blast round in a 13 year old SaabHuh?

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 07-08-2010 7:38 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    chris : LED is just a backlighting technique, replacing fluorescent tubes by white LED doesn't improve the contrast in any way (and seeing the clouding issues on BV10, it seems that the slim light guides technology is not completely masterised by Samsung). Only active matrix of LEDs (as seen in the BV7 55) have a real impact on PQ (with new issues such as halos).

    When you see LED backlit LCDs, you also are in front of the latest panel technology, that's where the real contrast improvements are.

  • 07-08-2010 11:00 AM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Thank you,

    Having visited a local shop with the chance of comparing a 7-40 next to an 10-46 with the same program playing, i concluded that although the picture on the 10 was sharper, the overall image on the 7 was much more natural as was the colour. Everything seemed a little softer and in my opinion far more B&O like. Opinion changed and it just goes to prove that statistics and figures are like a lamp post to a drunken man....

    More for leaning on, than illuminating!

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 09-04-2011 6:06 AM In reply to

    • hotknife
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Hi guys,

    just found the technological talk over the 8-40 and found it`s worth a update. I thought about to substitute my 100hz BV8-40 against some "new" stuff. I really like the design & picture quality of my 8-40 but you know, good is good, but better carries it. The BV8-40 is integrated into a setup of BL9 front-, BL4000 rear speakers. Because of my furniture, the only option is a BV7-40 with BL7.1. I do not care about 3D, so a latest 7-40 with 200hz would be a option.

    For sure the picure of the 7-40 is better, because of the panel and processor of the BS3 and the BL7.1 is a killer against the integrated speaker of the 8-40. But is it that much better? Because of my front and rear speakers, the center does not have that much of work in comparison to a single BL7.1 without any other speakers.

    Incl. the BL7.1 and a DVB-module, the BV7-40 200hz version is round 10k. The new BV11 is like reading tea leaves. And everybody knows, there is never the right day to buy consumer electonic. A view weeks later, you will be faced with a better version for less.

    What about replacing the 100hz 8-40 for the 200hz, or wait for the new BV11? Or is there a new BV Apple ready beginning of 2012? Is there a LED 8-40 in the pipeline? Questions over questions. You know, if men have time and some money, it is not a very good combination. The only comparision between men and boys is the price of their toys.

    Any suggestions?

    Take care.

    BeoVision 8-40, ATV2, BeoSound 4, Front BeoLab 9, Rear Beolab 4000 MKII, Beo 4

  • 09-04-2011 6:46 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    markiedee:

    just to add also that the bv8-40 has visionclear processing, in there 2010 brochure it states that and i feel that it shows in the picture quality.

    In analogue TV days Visionclear, as I understand it, was a collection of analogue hardware circuits and techniques, along with a contrast screen, that was used to improve the picture quality. Nowadays I believe that, apart from the contrast screen, it is reduced to a collection of DSP algorithms in the "picture engine" DSP. All digital TV's by necessity use DSP for similar processing and each manufacturer calls their own system some trade name or other - Sony's Bravia engine springs to mind, without going off to check what it and others are called today.

    My point being that "Visionclear" today isn't necessarily something that others don't have (by another name), other than the contrast screen. How much better Visionclear really is than the others can only ever be judged by a side by side comparison on the same panel adjusted and calibrated to be as close as possible to some "ideal". This is never going to happen!

    If it is better (and I hope it is) then fine, I have no issue. My point is that it shouldn't just be assumed.

    One of B&O's plus points is the TV leaves the shop with a much better "setup" than most of the cheaper competition, however the picture quality and performance of most TV's can be improved considerably from their "delivered" condition by judicious adjustment of the menu settings. Of coure this shouldn't be necessary but then many folk don't even notice or even bother to adjust the settings!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 09-04-2011 10:48 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Puncher, VisionClear has evolved from the days of analog processing, but is still a collection of technologies and hardware choices that, even individually, are not generally found in the competition. B&O considers even the choice of chem-treated front glass an element of VisionClear. 

    I think that there is information in the marketing materials about the elements of VisionClear and the technologies used to deal with these elements. It's always been a complaint of mine that we don't trumpet our technological advances where we make them and fall to easily into the "it's just the looks" argument. 

    I'll see if I can dig up the brochure or at least transcribe from our training binder. 

    For my personal testimonial, I've had B&O televisions for almost 10 years, the one thing about the images I couldn't live without is the natural color representation. I still have a 50" BeoVision 4 running on a BeoSystem 1 and I'd argue that in some respects the image is still better than the last 5 years of mass-market TVs have been able to deliver. Commodity brands seem to focus relentlessly on sharpness of detail and not smoothness of motion or natural colors. This makes a wiz-bang demo in the stores but it's fatiguing to view for even an hour. If there was something you could do to calibrate these televisions to make the image more natural, it would be fine, but there's not a lot you can do.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-04-2011 11:08 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    TripEnglish:

    Puncher, VisionClear has evolved from the days of analog processing, but is still a collection of technologies and hardware choices that, even individually, are not generally found in the competition. B&O considers even the choice of chem-treated front glass an element of VisionClear. 

    I think that there is information in the marketing materials about the elements of VisionClear and the technologies used to deal with these elements. It's always been a complaint of mine that we don't trumpet our technological advances where we make them and fall to easily into the "it's just the looks" argument. 

    I'll see if I can dig up the brochure or at least transcribe from our training binder. 

    For my personal testimonial, I've had B&O televisions for almost 10 years, the one thing about the images I couldn't live without is the natural color representation. I still have a 50" BeoVision 4 running on a BeoSystem 1 and I'd argue that in some respects the image is still better than the last 5 years of mass-market TVs have been able to deliver. Commodity brands seem to focus relentlessly on sharpness of detail and not smoothness of motion or natural colors. This makes a wiz-bang demo in the stores but it's fatiguing to view for even an hour. If there was something you could do to calibrate these televisions to make the image more natural, it would be fine, but there's not a lot you can do.

    I'd be interested to hear about the hardware elements of Visionclear  built into the BS3.

    Most TV's can definitely be calibrated to a much better, more natural picture than the store setting, in fact most decent TV reviews will first calibrate the picture before even starting the review at all. A good starting point is normally the THX certified setting.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 09-04-2011 2:47 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    This is true, but these are prefessional reviewers. Most people do not know how to access the correct menus let alone how to adjust the chromatic values, luminant values, and geometric values to achieve either a THX or ISF calibration. Bang & Olufsen televisions, on the other hand, are ISF calibrated from the factory (these values are printed on the back of BeoVision 4 panels for example and are entered into the BeoSystem 3 by the installing technician). To have an ISF representative perform the calibration in the field is around $1,200USD, so add that to the cost of whatever disposable television you buy. 

    As for the the picture competencies, I found my binder, but there are 11 pages of material on both the approach and the technology. I don't have a digital version, but maybe I could figure out my scanner at some point. Here are some of the basics:

    1. We focus on the quality on the chain, which begins with the transmission or storage media and ends with the environmental conditions. Contrast this with other televisions that deal with their on-board hardware only. 

    2. We take an adaptive approach. There is measurement & analysis of incoming transmissions. This data is measured against an ideal set of values so different actions are taken on different parameters from frame to frame (for a very cool representation of this, ask your dealer to put their television in "dealer mode" and watch the graph of values change as the lights are changed in the room and different images are displayed on the television). Contrast this with a single set of algorythms universally applied.

    3. We value viewing comfort and use viewing panels to measure how much of a given effect to use in "correcting" an image. As an anecdote, the thing that most people comment on when viewing a TV for the first time in my showroom is the smoothness of the motion. A percentage of people often don't like the effect as the smoothness can be interpreted as "too perfect" giving film the appearance of a video frame rate and changing the artistic character of the film. These folks are in the minority in my experience, but it shows that there's no such thing as an objectively perfect image standard.

    And more specifically on the hardware, the BeoSystem 3 uses sensors built into the screens to measure ambient light for brightness & color temperature as well as, in the case of plasmas, the color values of the panel itself. It also puts the incoming signals through an analysis that measures for contrast, sharpness, native frame rate, transmission artifacts, etc. and then applies correction for display. This occurs across several modules in the chassis, one of which contains the Pixelworks chipset ("PW" in the SW suite).  

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-04-2011 3:47 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    TripEnglish:

    This is true, but these are prefessional reviewers. Most people do not know how to access the correct menus let alone how to adjust the chromatic values, luminant values, and geometric values to achieve either a THX or ISF calibration. Bang & Olufsen televisions, on the other hand, are ISF calibrated from the factory (these values are printed on the back of BeoVision 4 panels for example and are entered into the BeoSystem 3 by the installing technician). To have an ISF representative perform the calibration in the field is around $1,200USD, so add that to the cost of whatever disposable television you buy.

    As for the the picture competencies, I found my binder, but there are 11 pages of material on both the approach and the technology. I don't have a digital version, but maybe I could figure out my scanner at some point. Here are some of the basics:

    1. We focus on the quality on the chain, which begins with the transmission or storage media and ends with the environmental conditions. Contrast this with other televisions that deal with their on-board hardware only.

    2. We take an adaptive approach. There is measurement & analysis of incoming transmissions. This data is measured against an ideal set of values so different actions are taken on different parameters from frame to frame (for a very cool representation of this, ask your dealer to put their television in "dealer mode" and watch the graph of values change as the lights are changed in the room and different images are displayed on the television). Contrast this with a single set of algorythms universally applied.

    3. We value viewing comfort and use viewing panels to measure how much of a given effect to use in "correcting" an image. As an anecdote, the thing that most people comment on when viewing a TV for the first time in my showroom is the smoothness of the motion. A percentage of people often don't like the effect as the smoothness can be interpreted as "too perfect" giving film the appearance of a video frame rate and changing the artistic character of the film. These folks are in the minority in my experience, but it shows that there's no such thing as an objectively perfect image standard.

    And more specifically on the hardware, the BeoSystem 3 uses sensors built into the screens to measure ambient light for brightness & color temperature as well as, in the case of plasmas, the color values of the panel itself. It also puts the incoming signals through an analysis that measures for contrast, sharpness, native frame rate, transmission artifacts, etc. and then applies correction for display. This occurs across several modules in the chassis, one of which contains the Pixelworks chipset ("PW" in the SW suite).

     

     

    The reviews I've read of Beovisions almost always quote the colour temperature to be significantly higher than the ISF "recommended" value of 6500K, although this seems to be a consistent B&O choice, resulting in a slightly cooler, bluer picture - or so it's claimed. B&O obviously believe this to be better than the standard, it would be interesting to know why. I don't think anyone else calibrates their TV's with this "cold" a picture.

    To be fair, point 1. is just marketing whiffle. Point 2. and the final paragraph are equally true for other manufacturers (with the exception of the plasma "auto calibrator"). The Pixelworks chipset is part of the DSP I mentioned earlier - each TV has it's own and it can't be assumed that one is better than any other from a hardware point of view without digging in to the technical specifications. Other than that it is software - the algorithms used and how well they are implemented.

    Again, I'm not knocking the BS3 processor, it's generating good pictures on some good TV's. I just wanted to point out that Visionclear is now primarily a collection of DSP software routines (with the exception of the contrast screen), some based on sensor inputs. Visionclear is B&O's term for these systems, other manufacturers will call theirs something else (X Reality Pro in the above example). B&O may well implement these things better than anyone else but it isn't a "given" and shouldn't be assumed without question.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 09-04-2011 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Technical aspects are never a given.

    But with almost any B&O stuff, it is always very good...especially on the bottom line of longterm viewing or listening comfort.

    Considering their design, build quality and the overall gestalt of their ownership experience, I'll take the odds on a B&O purchase everytime.

    Everything else I buy should deliver on the above as well as they do, for my money!
  • 09-04-2011 6:28 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Punchkin, if we're opting for a cooler picture (and I don't believe we are, I'd be interested to see if you could site such an article), I would assume it would be due to the outcome of viewing panels. Having seen these in action it's clear that the engineers aren't just looking to blindly push values in one direction or another. The outcomes are shaped by the input of regular people giving their feedback.

    And in fairness, point one is generally outlining a design & engineering statement. It wasn't meant to contain technical information.

    And in fairness, your link to the Bravia TV doesn't actually a) capture the same data that the B&O sensors do (i.e. chromanance values) and b) feed it into the same sort of active renderign B&O does. So in fairness the link is useless. 

    And also in fairness, no one is assuming that the PixelWorks chipset is superior. That topic is easily researched since they OEM for several manufacturers and ample third party review material exists. The general consensus is that they're among the best out there. And logically, since we're not afraid to charge whatever we'd like for televisions and can source whatever we'd like, it sort of stands to reason that we'd probably just go right ahead and snatch up the best of what's out there.

    And in quadruple fairness, thanks for your kind words about the BeoSystem 3. It would like to write a review of you, but has no arms or hands with which to do so. But it likes you, don't worry. It just doesn't assume that you're better than other people without knowing how well your algorithms are implemented.  

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-05-2011 2:36 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV8-40 - pros and cons?

    Steady on Trip - no need to throw a wobbly!!

    "The problem with standard settings, however, is the high colour temperature of slightly more than 9000 Kelvin. We are aiming for 6500 Kelvin, and the 9000 Kelvin of the BeoVision 7-55 result in a colder, more bluish picture, whereas our reference temperature of 6500º Kelvin produces a warmer, redder picture.

    This is a consistent choice on the part of Bang & Olufsen, and has been identified in numerous consumer tests. We saw it in our tests of the
    BeoVision 10 and the BeoVision 8-40, but I am still not entirely in favour of this disposition." Taken from LINK.

    The Bravia TV actively adjusts for overall room brightness and colour temperature as does B&O - the link was not useless! (Chrominance is a term used to describe part of the make up of a video signal and isn't something measured from the room).

    My original post was meant to point out that the ideas and concepts behind the term "Visionclear" wasn't something only used by B&O and that other manufacturers had similar systems - there seemed to be an impression, at least by some, that it was totally unique.

    I'll not bother responding to the rest of your post.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

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