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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 03-11-2011 4:28 AM by OKF. 131 replies.
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  • 09-02-2010 12:04 AM

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Dear Gang,

    I think I can probably already guess the answer to the question that will follow (i.e. a resounding "no"), but just in case.........

    In reading this article:

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/01/airplay_allows_wireless_streaming_to_apple_third_party_devices.html

    it's stated that the AirPlay standard announced at Apple's presentation today will be adopted by third party devices for wireless playing of iPods / iPhones / iPads / AppleTVs / etc.

    What are the odds of B&O's upcoming iPod speaker dock system having AirPlay?

    Mark

    Mark D
  • 09-02-2010 9:06 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    The odds of the new system having Airplay: zero :-(

    Anyway... AirPlay is going to make it (more) difficult for B&O...

    The race for quality has no finish line- so technically, it's more like a death march.

  • 09-02-2010 9:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    The death of B&O will come from Apple.

    Wherever they are in competition with Apple (MP3 players, Mobile phone), they've had to give up, as Apple also has great design and ease of use, but at a cheaper price point.  

    The day Apple produces a TV with mutimedia capabilities... there will be only one thing left to B&O, and that will be the speakers.

    p.

  • 09-02-2010 9:36 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    If the new ipod speaker dock from B&O does not support Apple´s new airplay, this new B&O product is dead before it comes out!

    /Räuber

     

  • 09-02-2010 10:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    PhilLondon:

    The death of B&O will come from Apple.

    Wherever they are in competition with Apple (MP3 players, Mobile phone), they've had to give up, as Apple also has great design and ease of use, but at a cheaper price point.  

    The day Apple produces a TV with mutimedia capabilities... there will be only one thing left to B&O, and that will be the speakers.

    p.

    This is, fortunately, not the case and showcases the lack of understanding of the B&O core client and the custom AV industry at large often displayed on these boards. It's like saying "Trek has come out with their best bike yet. Looks like Lamborghini will have to shudder their factories." The only turf we've seeded has been turf that wasn't ours to begin with: portable devices. 

    The AppleTV became even less capable yesterday showing that Apple's focus is on media and software content and not on the hardware market. Not that it's a bad piece, but Steve Jobs discussed why the market is not ripe for their entry and may not be for a very long time. The content is too disparate to wrangle with one deal. You need only brow-beat one mobile carrier per market and you can dominate in phones, but if you want to take a whack at media content you're stuck herding cats; striking deal after deal after deal in an effort to serve up the needed content to make an impact on users who still largely see pre-historic cable & satellite providers as their best bets.

    As much as people hem and haw over the "Apple Question" the reality remains that when I sell a $500,000 system, less than .005% of that is Apple products. They're not going to affect my business one way or another. 

    I'm not denying their ability to dominate a market when they want to, but folks are misreading the tea leaves if they think Apple wants to do what B&O, Sony, Samsung, etc. do. They don't. They want to make money off pushing content onto devices and to build just enough hardware to make certain that their content experience is under control. Beyond that, who cares? Not Apple.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-02-2010 10:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Their Ipod speaker for me is returning to the old crappy way. That has nothing to do with serious audio. Maybe they have volume on ythis selling it in the Apple store. Maybe they will add airplay in a year or 2.

    Airplay is not even in the market, we do not know how well it will work. I can stream form Itunes today onto the Airport Express or Apple TV and fact is, very often it does not really work. I.e. connection breaks, delays, etc.

    Actually I stopped using my airports expresses long ago. Airplay is nothing more then bringing what Itunes can do to IOS 4 devices.

     

    in fact, I would be really surprised if it wouldnt be working on the older ATV.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-02-2010 11:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Actually, Airplay allows you to stream audio, HD-content video, photos and other digital content to every A/V peripheral on your WiFi or Ethernet network, controlled from wherever you are that is connected to that network. It requires either ATV-units or Macs that are connected to the peripheral (television or speaker.)

  • 09-02-2010 11:12 AM In reply to

    • steph
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • France
    • Posts 612
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Real Hi-Fi is not Wi-Fi ! Wink

  • 09-02-2010 11:29 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    steph:

    Real Hi-Fi is not Wi-Fi ! Wink

     

     

    Why does this make me think of the British motor industry? I am afraid that manufacturers of Hi-Fi and AV products generally cannot sit still. I agree with Trip that B&O can cater for an esoteric market but they also have to deal with the middle classes. This is the type of person who is looking to justify why he is paying an inflated price. He will also be attracted to a brand by the lower end and then work up. You cannot survive being the size of B&O and just cater for the super rich. If the lower end products do not have the features expected and are simply rebranded other makes, he will not buy them.

    At present B&O sell a good range of speakers and TVs. I think you can justify the price differential in most cases. However they must keep adapting and products like the iPod dock will be competing for business - I agree it is unlikely to have Airplay compatibility and I think this is worrying. We don't want another BS6 scenario - too little, too late. It needs a unique selling feature and simply being pretty won't cut it. I am looking forward to seeing what it offers.

  • 09-02-2010 11:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    B&O have wonderful televisions and speakers, required peripherals for enjoying content - whether analog or digital. If they focus on ensuring that these are top-notch, and that they continue to be styled to be as outstanding as they have been for decades now, then that bit is sorted.

    Then B&O has to recognize that its forays into BeoMedia and similar IT-components is never going to pan out. Developments are moving too fast, from too many other actors. Instead, make certain that your users easily can connect their B&O peripherals to the outlets for content. A major player in that market is definitely Apple, but there are others. However, with yesterday's announcement that Netflix is making all of their movies available through AppleTV, it's pretty definite what's happening.

    The statement "real Hi-Fi is not Wi-Fi" doesn't make any sense. I can and do download high-resolution tracks from Linn Records, HD-Tracks, 2L and other providers (Naxos is making major portions of its catalogue available in high-res), and that download happens with WiFi as a component in the chain, to the storage medium I am using.

    Airport Express will transmit 16/44.1, but not high-res. But that's not a problem for me, as my MacMini accesses the files outside the AE, as a file that is unpacked in the Mini before being sent to my BL5s.
    HD-films in 5.1 DD surround will use the same WiFi, and be played back wherever you want in your network.

    Yesterday, Apple removed the CD from its iTunes logo, declaring that container for content to be passé. The new generation of users, and potential consumers with purchase power to consider B&O, will not just expect but demand the integration that Apple is providing, and will enjoy being able to have that playback convenience, coupled with excellent quality, through the screens and speakers they purchase. Providers that make integration simple, while mining the high-quality options available, will be able to sell more speakers and screens to this market.

    B&O's future lies in ensuring the best possible sound and image environment where people are watching and listening, not in trying to outdo Apple and others in the digital component area.
    The B&O room-adjustment features presently coming from automotive and into the living rooms could be a major attention getter, bringing people into stores; as could acoustic lenses in active speakers - a field that B&O still dominates, but hasn't known how to properly exploit.

    The way to think of this is that a B&O customer could enjoy the wonders of a three-star Michelin restaurant, at the table, while B&O sorts out how all the digital and other content is channeled, out in the kitchen -- while that kitchen is connected to the best content in the world, for the customer's convenience, whenever they choose to take part of it.

    That's in the spirit of what once made B&O great. 

     

  • 09-02-2010 11:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    PhilLondon:

    The death of B&O will come from Apple.

    Wherever they are in competition with Apple (MP3 players, Mobile phone), they've had to give up, as Apple also has great design and ease of use, but at a cheaper price point.  

    The day Apple produces a TV with mutimedia capabilities... there will be only one thing left to B&O, and that will be the speakers.

    p.

     

    I'm not denying their ability to dominate a market when they want to, but folks are misreading the tea leaves if they think Apple wants to do what B&O, Sony, Samsung, etc. do. They don't. They want to make money off pushing content onto devices and to build just enough hardware to make certain that their content experience is under control. Beyond that, who cares? Not Apple.

     

    Trip I agree with you.  Sony and Amazon have already announced competing services and more will follow.  I did order a new Apple TV yesterday only because the hard drive on my original Apple TV failed and could not be repaired out of warranty.  At $99 each, I could probably have several Apple TVs scattered around the house.  B&O like Denon may support the Airplay standard someday but why would they want to be limited to just Apple when there are other standards in the mix?

     

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 09-02-2010 12:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    While we are talking about Apple, I am afraid I don't understand why everyone thinks the possible B&O iPod dock is a must have item.  I do have an iPod which is actually my iPhone 4.  Why would I put my phone in a dock to play music through my system?  Do I need an iPod touch to make all this work in addition to the iPhone?  Beosound 5 does need software upgrades but what would the B&O dock do unless the new dock is an ML device?

    We have been talking about this for months and I have never really understood why this is important!  Maybe we need a new thread.

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 09-02-2010 12:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I'll add a little something to the above.

    B&O made playing records thoroughly enjoyable, an aesthetic pleasure and a functional joy.
    They provided customers with reel-to-reel playback, and made the best cassette decks available, pioneering technology that ended up in other high-end players. They were among the first to provide cd-players, and built the best television sets around, becoming famous for their colour sets.

    At no time during that process did they forget their main mission - to integrate all of this brilliantly, for end user convenience.

    Which makes me wonder why they seem determined to make digital harddisk stored playback a pain ... 

    I would love to have the genius behind this product in how today's B&O products integrate with digital content.

    A professional or serious musician could connect a microphone to the system, adjust the LP playback to fit the pitch of his instrument, record himself playing along for practice purposes, and then listen to the result ... all with perfect ease, because B&O catered to such needs.

     


  • 09-02-2010 12:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    The only explanation I have that people who do not have B&O buy it in an Apple store and get introduced to the brand.

    For sure they moved through quite a few of A8s when they were sold.

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-02-2010 1:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Apple list partner brands for AirPlay.

    http://www.apple.com/itunes/airplay/

    No B&O there...

    Interesting point on this page... Airplay includes support for meta data for devices that supports it, and also allows the control of the volume of the distant device from the sending device...

    p.

  • 09-02-2010 1:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    How AirPlay is used to stream other content than music to peripherals.

     

     


  • 09-02-2010 3:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    linder:

    While we are talking about Apple, I am afraid I don't understand why everyone thinks the possible B&O iPod dock is a must have item.  I do have an iPod which is actually my iPhone 4.  Why would I put my phone in a dock to play music through my system?  Do I need an iPod touch to make all this work in addition to the iPhone?  Beosound 5 does need software upgrades but what would the B&O dock do unless the new dock is an ML device?

    We have been talking about this for months and I have never really understood why this is important!  Maybe we need a new thread.

    Quite simply because people still ask for it. Regardless of our personal thoughts on the subject, we all know that the iPod in its many forms is here to stay as an "audio master" for a certain type of client. The mass market consumer to be specific. This client does not care about the connected home in a real way, only in an abstract way, so gimmicks are fine.

    I hate to disagree with Peter, by the way, but B&O do not have to deal with the middle class consumer at this time. The middle class consumer is just not spending at a level where it makes sense for us to focus on them. As the economy gets back on its feet we may well see a broader offering at more accessible prices, but right now we have to keep our eyes on the prize.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-02-2010 3:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    I hate to disagree with Peter, by the way, but B&O do not have to deal with the middle class consumer at this time. The middle class consumer is just not spending at a level where it makes sense for us to focus on them. As the economy gets back on its feet we may well see a broader offering at more accessible prices, but right now we have to keep our eyes on the prize.

    I think the US market is rather different to that in the UK. However an 18.5% drop in North Amercan sales would seem to make the UK drop seem rather more palatable. The market for B&O in the UK seems to be mainly professional middle classes and these are the type of people who are going to be reasonably astute about technology. They are also the bedrock of a dealer's customer base because they keep coming back. Or at least they will if looked after. Make them feel special and offer good products and you have a nice business.

     

  • 09-02-2010 4:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I am sorry but I think there is nothing wrong with "mass market". B&W launched their very successfull iPod dock and I am pretty sure that many people that not even heard about the brand, started to pay attention to them, specially younger clients who start to develop in their minds almost unconsciously a positioning for a brand.

    If somehow they perceived a brand as high-end, high quality somehow that gets set in stone in their mind forever.  I bet that's what happened with many of us with B&O when we were young.

    Yes it still needs to bring some features like: very good quality, some "magic", great design, and expensive but still affordable.

    Not everybody lives or needs a McMansion with a $500,000.00 A/V installation but still can have the resources to afford a nice home theater room with let say a $15,000.00 to $50,000.00 A/V installation and my guess is B&O is very happy to sell their products to this type of clientelle too.

    No doubt there is a huge difference between the B&O perception in the American and European market but I guess that is the problem with the american market they are trying so hard to keep it for the super-mega high end that very few people knows about the brand. And in my humble vision that is a huge mistake.

  • 09-02-2010 4:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    This has brought a very considerable number of new customers to the B&W brand. Can't be wrong.

    I don't buy into Trip's thinking at all, reminds me of Facit thinking no-one would want calculators with LED-displays. Facit who? The people who made their reputation making high quality mechanical adding machines.

  • 09-02-2010 4:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    soundproof:

    I'll add a little something to the above.

    B&O made playing records thoroughly enjoyable, an aesthetic pleasure and a functional joy.
    They provided customers with reel-to-reel playback, and made the best cassette decks available, pioneering technology that ended up in other high-end players. They were among the first to provide cd-players, and built the best television sets around, becoming famous for their colour sets.

    At no time during that process did they forget their main mission - to integrate all of this brilliantly, for end user convenience.

    Which makes me wonder why they seem determined to make digital harddisk stored playback a pain ... 

    I would love to have the genius behind this product in how today's B&O products integrate with digital content.

    A professional or serious musician could connect a microphone to the system, adjust the LP playback to fit the pitch of his instrument, record himself playing along for practice purposes, and then listen to the result ... all with perfect ease, because B&O catered to such needs.

     

    Looking at the beautiful 6000 system prototype is wonderful - one of my biggest disappointments was finding out that it was just a mock up!

  • 09-02-2010 6:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    It's not my thinking, it's observed reality. Before the recession you'd be dead on. I'd be first in line beating the drum for premium mass market products for $15k-$50k systems, but these days those systems don't move like they used to and definately not enough to support a dealer. I'm sure parts of the EU market are different, but we can see sales numbers anywhere in the world and the sales mix relies on large custom sales more than ever. Back 5-7 years ago a dealer could avoid larger custom systems and the complexity they invite and just push 1-2 room solutions all day long with some 2 channel systems thrown in for good measure. Not today. Stores that rely on retail business and small systems are folding. 

    As I said, as the market thaws I'm sure you'll see more entry level and mid-market offerings fleshed out, but right now many mid-market aspirational customers are holding off on purchases like this, new cars, kitchen renovations, etc. until the market exhibits some long term stability. As that happens, I hope that our product mix keeps pace and we're able to offer some great entry and mid-level systems. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 09-02-2010 6:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    PhilLondon:

    Apple list partner brands for AirPlay.

    http://www.apple.com/itunes/airplay/

    No B&O there...

    Interesting point on this page... Airplay includes support for meta data for devices that supports it, and also allows the control of the volume of the distant device from the sending device...

    p.

    Yes, I saw that list yesterday: Denon, iHome (had to look them up !), JBL, Marantz, B&W ........

    My question is (and I know that no one will have the answer) is

    ? did Apple approach B&O and B&O not take up the opportunity to be part of the launch

    ? did Apple not even think to approach B&O

    To be honest I am not sure which answer would make me sadder

     

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 09-02-2010 9:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    when I sell a $500,000 system 

    Seriously, how big is the market for a $500,000 system? No company could afford to sustain a market like that.

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 09-02-2010 9:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    jldmelb:

    TripEnglish:

    when I sell a $500,000 system 

     

    Seriously, how big is the market for a $500,000 system? No company could afford to sustain a market like that.

    Um... big.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

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