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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 03-22-2011 9:22 AM by Daniel. 29 replies.
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  • 03-19-2011 7:22 PM

    BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Hi everyone

    Just wondering if someone can help me. I currently have a pair of BL 8000's as mains hooked up to a BV7-40 with a BL2 attached. I'm looking to possibly upgrade to a pair of BL5's. The existing system sounds beautiful & i was wondering if there would be a significant difference in sound with the BL5's. I have a pair of BL 4000's as rear's.

    Also could anyone see a problem in buying a pair of BL5's from 07 (ex demo from a dealer) as opposed to a new pair. Any software changes etc.....Quite a significant saving on the ex demo pair.

    Thanks

    Mark

  • 03-19-2011 8:16 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    To your fisth question:

    Try comparing this to:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SmQk2jClOU4/TAbiIGQqkPI/AAAAAAAABgM/JdDKg-qUsdU/s1600/lada.jpg

    http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/06/05/07/50/2008_bentley_continental_gt-pic-41173.jpeg

     

    And no, they are probably as good as new,  buy demo, might be better sound then a pair of new ones!

  • 03-19-2011 9:14 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    The answer you are looking for is "night & day"!

    There is no comparison between the two. The BL5 is superior in every aspect apart from not coming as a shiny aluminium object.

     

    10

  • 03-20-2011 4:09 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Well, there are more things they have in common. They are both active speakers and they are both made by Bang & Olufsen. You should just compare them at home in your own livingroom with your own music, and it will all be clear!

  • 03-20-2011 4:37 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    As 10 percent said, absolutely night and day, to Beolab 5's advantage. 

     

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 03-20-2011 3:03 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Except the BL 8000s are much better looking.  Of course that's an opinion...but BL5s belong on the set of Star Trek!  Big Smile

  • 03-21-2011 2:33 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    macjonny1:

    Except the BL 8000s are much better looking.  Of course that's an opinion...but BL5s belong on the set of Star Trek!  Big Smile

    Seriously, both are pretty. Okay, granted, the BL5s looks more like "the bizz", but they look an awful lot better than "real" far-field studio monitors.

    The 8000s and the 5's aren't really the same when it comes to the tech. The obvious one is the ALT lens, but it goes deeper than that. The 8000 is  a"hybrid" design. It's not a true active. If you want deep bass and connect a subwoofer to it, the sub will be making use of a passive crossover, whereas the rest of the speaker units employ active crossovers.

    I  just did some reading up on the BL8000s, and it seems they "actively" bodged some things in it to make it function. Not to make it sound better and more accurate but band-aided it to a) give it more bottom at the cost of precision and in effect making it into a two-way speaker, and b) put some electronic circuit into it so it would last a bit longer.

     

    So, although I really don't like "night-and-day" comments because they remind me audiophilics, the BL5s are in a completely different league in every aspect.  There is not a single point where the BL8000 is comparable technically or audio wise.  It is almost as clear cut as comparing a passive with an active design, a turntable with a cd, or a reel-to-reel to an uncompressed digital file.

     

  • 03-21-2011 5:23 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Thanks for everyone's comments. I've made up my mind that i will be purchasing them and can't wait. I was probably more concerned with the second part of my post in regards to ex demo's. Cheers again

    I will keep you updated on the difference. :)  

  • 03-21-2011 6:35 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    ollie75:

    Thanks for everyone's comments. I've made up my mind that i will be purchasing them and can't wait. I was probably more concerned with the second part of my post in regards to ex demo's. Cheers again

    I will keep you updated on the difference. :)  

    No problem. I wouldn't worry about them being ex-demos at all. Money saved, and you know you won't receive a lemon.

     

     

  • 03-21-2011 7:48 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Will you attach the BL 5 with the BL 2. My dealer said the bass of the BL 5 is so powerful that there is no need to use a BL 2.

  • 03-21-2011 7:52 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Hi Chicken

    No i wont be attaching the BL2. I'm sure the bass would well and truely be enough. Can you use the BL2 on the rears? (BL4000's)

  • 03-21-2011 8:11 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Hmm, I am using a non-B&O amp, so I am able to set the crossover for each speakers separately. But I am not sure about Beosystem though.

    Congrat on getting the BeoLab 5. I wanted them sooo much but just have to save up first. Stick out tongue

  • 03-21-2011 9:13 AM In reply to

    • stefan
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    ollie75:

    Hi Chicken

    No i wont be attaching the BL2. I'm sure the bass would well and truely be enough. Can you use the BL2 on the rears? (BL4000's)

    Yes, you can add your BL2 to your BL4000s. Just connect the "surround" Powerlink to BL2 and BL2 PL out to BL4000 PL.

    Now you have  "3-way surround speakers". Works great in my main setup.

    Stefan

  • 03-21-2011 9:58 AM In reply to

    • Jon
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Electrified:

    The 8000 is  a"hybrid" design. It's not a true active.

    Electrified, would you mind clarifying what exactly you mean in saying the BL8000 isn't a true active speaker? It uses an electronic line-level X-over, fed into a single, two-channel power amplifier - one channel for the tweeter, and one for the woofers. I assume this is your point of contention - the two-channel amp? While not ideal, that wouldn't disqualify it from being an active speaker. It still has a dedicated, direct connected channel of amplification for each drive unit/set of drive units.

    Electrified:

    If you want deep bass and connect a subwoofer to it, the sub will be making use of a passive crossover, whereas the rest of the speaker units employ active crossovers.

    Why wouldn't you be able to use an active subwoofer with BL8000's? I don't get it...Confused

    Electrified:

    I  just did some reading up on the BL8000s, and it seems they "actively" bodged some things in it to make it function. Not to make it sound better and more accurate but band-aided it to a) give it more bottom at the cost of precision and in effect making it into a two-way speaker, and b) put some electronic circuit into it so it would last a bit longer.

    Yes, they used to be a 2.5-way design. B&O later changed them to a simpler 2-way setup, wherein both midbass drivers shared the same operating passband. I don't know how much precision this cost the BL8000, but I'd say it likely contributed to increased lobing and comb-filtering effects.

    Jon

  • 03-21-2011 10:18 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Jon:

    Electrified:

    The 8000 is  a"hybrid" design. It's not a true active.

    Electrified, would you mind clarifying what exactly you mean in saying the BL8000 isn't a true active speaker? It uses an electronic line-level X-over, fed into a single, two-channel power amplifier - one channel for the tweeter, and one for the woofers. I assume this is your point of contention - the two-channel amp? While not ideal, that wouldn't disqualify it from being an active speaker. It still has a dedicated, direct connected channel of amplification for each drive unit/set of drive units.

    No, an amplifier per unit is indeed what's needed to make a proper active design.

    But an active design has more to do with crossovers and the amped units is a necessity following the choice of an active crossover, in that the crossover happens before the amplification at line level.

    However, it didn't have each unit amplified as is common, it started out with having two of the units (the bass) amplified by a single unit, utilising a passive crossover for that part.

     

    This from another site (beocentral) - my bolding:

    In the earlier models one of the woofers was connected to the bass amplifier output via a simple passive filter so that it functioned as a midrange driver. This made the early Beolab 8000 a 3-way design with an unusual “hybrid passive-active” construction

    When it comes to active subs, I need to differentiate between a powered one and an active. Although both will have amplifiers connected (lol), it's the crossover that dictates whether it will be an active or a passive design.

    [...]those after No. 10145230, dispensed with the expensive crossover components and had both woofers wired in parallel, making the new models only a 2-way design. At the same time the electronic crossover filter was redesigned to include “adaptive bass linearisation”, a system that gave a bass lift at low listening levels. This was of course “loudness” by another name, although the method of applying it involved a complex electronic circuit that was sensitive to signal level rather than the position of the volume control of the main system. Although these changes increased the showroom impact of the Beolab 8000 at the point of purchase they made it a blunter instrument and less satisfying for the serious listener.

     

    More here:

     

    http://beocentral.com/beolab8000speaker

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • 03-21-2011 10:25 AM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    One could argue that the present design is fully active as the feed to the woofers is the same whereas the original was a hybrid. One could also argue that the earlier design was actually preferable in some ways but as few people can actually tell the difference, we are maybe discussing angels on pins.

    In any case, the Beolab 5 is so superior as to make this conversation irrelevant! I wish I could justify spending that amount of speakers as they really are superb. But as I listen to so little these days, I will stick with what I have!

  • 03-21-2011 10:33 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Peter :
    One could argue that the present design is fully active as the feed to the woofers is the same whereas the original was a hybrid. One could also argue that the earlier design was actually preferable in some ways but as few people can actually tell the difference, we are maybe discussing angels on pins.

    No we're not. The "fix" was to remove the passive crossover and completely nix the function of one of the units so it became more "booming" (i.e. less accurate) on the shop floor. As if passive crossovers weren't bad enough, let's "make up" for that by producing a booming speaker.

    If those are angels on pins, I seriously can't see any reasons to even think about BL5s. Those things are crucial reasons to why the Beolab 5s are so good speakers.

    For instance, whereas the BL5s attenuate the amplified signal, the BL8000s relies on attenuation of the "line level" signal. That alone makes it some bastardized hybrid design, reducing the signal/noise ratio at low levels.

    [clarification: I mean that the signal for the 8000 is attenuated before everything, including the crossover, and the BL5s are attenuated after the crossover and after the preamplification, but before the power amps, if that makes sense]

    Peter :
    In any case, the Beolab 5 is so superior as to make this conversation irrelevant! I wish I could justify spending that amount of speakers as they really are superb. But as I listen to so little these days, I will stick with what I have!

    It's not a moot point. He has the BL8000s and by explaining its design shortcomings comparitively one can also tell why it is a better speaker, why the BL5s are superior in every conceivable way instead of relying on feelings or looks (same thing, but you get the idea).

    Edit:

    Anyway, I don't know if he has some early ones or a later edition. With the information I have given and the things I've explained, it should be clear what's what, nothing less and nothing more. He can take what he wants from it, if anything. If not, it's no skin off my nose.

     

  • 03-21-2011 12:42 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    I do agree with you (I think!) I despise the inclusion of what is effectively an automatic loudness circuit in B&O speakers. I hate booming bass - I do understand that it makes the product more attractive in a showroom setting but I want a flat response and the ability to alter this to my taste.

    It does seem a shame that B&O manage to initiate a standard which involves active amplication of their speakers and then hobble them to a certain extent. However I am sure they have worked out wjhat sells - so maybe it is not their fault - but ours! Cool

  • 03-21-2011 12:51 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Peter :

    I do agree with you (I think!) I despise the inclusion of what is effectively an automatic loudness circuit in B&O speakers. I hate booming bass - I do understand that it makes the product more attractive in a showroom setting but I want a flat response and the ability to alter this to my taste.

    It does seem a shame that B&O manage to initiate a standard which involves active amplication of their speakers and then hobble them to a certain extent. However I am sure they have worked out wjhat sells - so maybe it is not their fault - but ours! Cool

    I just think that at that time, they were finding their feet and wasn't quite confident with active design yet.  Never underestimate incompetence, lol.

    I cannot fault their BL9s or 5s at all (re audio quality and from a technical standpoint). They certainly have the tech down these days.

     

     

     

     

  • 03-21-2011 1:03 PM In reply to

    • KMA
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Electrified:

    This from another site (beocentral) - my bolding:

    In the earlier models one of the woofers was connected to the bass amplifier output via a simple passive filter so that it functioned as a midrange driver. This made the early Beolab 8000 a 3-way design with an unusual “hybrid passive-active” construction

    When it comes to active subs, I need to differentiate between a powered one and an active. Although both will have amplifiers connected (lol), it's the crossover that dictates whether it will be an active or a passive design.

    [...]those after No. 10145230, dispensed with the expensive crossover components and had both woofers wired in parallel, making the new models only a 2-way design. At the same time the electronic crossover filter was redesigned to include “adaptive bass linearisation”, a system that gave a bass lift at low listening levels. This was of course “loudness” by another name, although the method of applying it involved a complex electronic circuit that was sensitive to signal level rather than the position of the volume control of the main system. Although these changes increased the showroom impact of the Beolab 8000 at the point of purchase they made it a blunter instrument and less satisfying for the serious listener.

     

    So in effect, in terms of audio performance, B&O have downgraded the Beolab 8000 (8002) since their release? Was the change to 2-way done at the same time when B&O switched the amps to Ice-Power? I used to own these speakers back in the '90s, and have now been considering them again, as I need slim speakers as fronts in my setup. I really liked the sound back in the day... but this information (new to me) got me hesitating about choosing them today.

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 03-21-2011 1:11 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    I don't know exactly when. There's a serial number somewhere in that link

    Apparently, the 8002s are the ones with ICE amps, and they came to market in 2010 according to Beocentral.

     

    Therefore it is a safe bet that the downgrade to two-way came long before the adaption of ICE amps, since the 8000s have been in production since 1992.

     

    You say you "need" slim speakers, but the BL9s doesn't take up much more space than the 8000s, and I can't imagine a room where you could fit 8000s and not fit 9s.

     

  • 03-21-2011 2:21 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    BL8000 can be wall-mounted FYI, and are 15cm wide vs 40cm wide.  That's a big difference, esp. multiplied 2.  I can imagine it quite easily.

    Electrified:

     

    You say you "need" slim speakers, but the BL9s doesn't take up much more space than the 8000s, and I can't imagine a room where you could fit 8000s and not fit 9s.

     

     

  • 03-21-2011 2:33 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    macjonny1:
    BL8000 can be wall-mounted FYI

    LOL, just in case they aren't booming enough with uncontrollable bass Whistle

  • 03-21-2011 2:41 PM In reply to

    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    Well do keep in mind I will gladly trade mine for BL9s or BL5s!!!


    My bass/crossover  is managed by my receiver and sent to my B&W subwoofer, so all is fine with Bass control.

  • 03-21-2011 3:17 PM In reply to

    • valve1
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    Re: BL 8000's vs BL 5's

    macjonny1:
    Except the BL 8000s are much better looking.  Of course that's an opinion...but BL5s belong on the set of Star Trek!  Big Smile
    Another good reason to stick with the 8000s is you wont be getting a visit from the style police :)

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