Dear Tue, today I saw the Bose Videowave, and ...

• it would appear that Bose have a standard 8 minute scripted demo in a standard theatrette with standard demonstration props and standard furniture for holding (hiding) the control unit ... if every major Bose store in every city has this then they have made a BIG investment in standardised marketing and messaging
• the demonstration was very slick with special effects like spotlights switching on to hightlight aspects of the system, a custom demo disc, etc
• the sound from the 26 speakers built into the TV's chassis was initially impressive ... but quickly started to sound false to my ears ... and I was told the technology required you to be in a room with walls (to bounce the sound off to create the surrond sound effect)
• they only have one size (46") no doubt because the intricacies of the physics of sound that they have engineered into the screen's "cabinet"
• the very simplified control unit's interaction with the around the borders screen menu system was well thought out
• the iThingy stand was a nice bonus feature (even though the menyu system then changes into "drill down through the file system to get to your music" approach, rather than meta-data seacrhing) 
• the "look ma, no wires" will instantly sell this system to anyone foolish enough to take their female partner with them
• the AU$7,999, CA$5,999 price point puts this unit into the B&O price range (and exchange rate inequalities too!)

Excellent opinions on the Bose Videowave. I saw it in a store demo in a closed room. The sound was very good and I kept looking behind me for the speakers. This should really appeal to those who cannot run wires or live in apartments that prohibit the ability to run wires.

The price point seems a bit steep for what you are getting, but it does bridge from the $2,000 machines to the $6,000 machines, and that is going to open up a great price point for B&O to enter the market or even undercut in the market. If Bose believes that there is a market for their product I would tend to believe that the B&O market is of even greater potential.

If I can offer a little input on this...

A market exists for faux-surround. There's absolutely no denying this. I would argue strongly, however, that it's not a market that we want any part of. We have to stand for a level of performance and craftsmanship that are at odds with the Bose philosophy. We're not here to go begging after every niche in the market. 

Now I do agree that the general standards of the retail store could be raised by having a pre-packaged demo for less seasoned sales people to use to orient customers to the brand and products. It's a problem that the retail side hasn't really dug into even where it's been identified. 

TripEnglish:

If I can offer a little input on this...

 

A market exists for faux-surround. There's absolutely no denying this. I would argue strongly, however, that it's not a market that we want any part of. We have to stand for a level of performance and craftsmanship that are at odds with the Bose philosophy. We're not here to go begging after every niche in the market. 

Now I do agree that the general standards of the retail store could be raised by having a pre-packaged demo for less seasoned sales people to use to orient customers to the brand and products. It's a problem that the retail side hasn't really dug into even where it's been identified. 

Agreed on all points. The faux-surround really gives the best name to the system. It felt more like a parlor trick than a sound system.

The message to be had in all of this is that Bose has established a price point that might serve B&O quite well.

TripEnglish:

Now I do agree that the general standards of the retail store could be raised by having a pre-packaged demo for less seasoned sales people to use to orient customers to the brand and products. It's a problem that the retail side hasn't really dug into even where it's been identified. 

Absolutely agree Trip; as we all (yes, in my own little way I am a salesperson) know the biggest challenge is early economical qualification.  After the 8 minutes inside the Bose booth you will either be reaching for the chequebook or not interested - so it seems to me that although it appears to be an expensive upfront investment, it will pay off for them by letting junior staff run a stock standard demo that results in a highly qualified lead that can be handed off to the more experienced sales-closer.

I saw this today and was fairly impressed. It would find it alot more useful in the bedroom/kitchen than my old Beosound 3. The quality was "ok" but it was a cosmetically nice product i thought. Considering Apple are apprently changing the charger design, therefore docking station attachment on the Ipad 3, Airplay is definately the way to go.

My reaction is.

Dear Tue,

Never ever look at Bose products for inspiration.  The only decent Bose products are the noise cancellation headphones for air travel which are somewhat expensive.

linder:

My reaction is.

Dear Tue,

Never ever look at Bose products for inspiration.  The only decent Bose products are the noise cancellation headphones for air travel which are somewhat expensive.

I am not a fan of Bose either, and am yet to see a product I would spend my own money on.

I haven't seen the product in question though so clearly can't pass comment.  What were your thoughts when you saw it?  I'd be interested to know about the picture quality and sound quality for the price as it may be an option for a couple of my rooms.

Thanks

My reply would be:

Dear Tue:

Please use the following metric in evaluating all that B&O does:

Would Steve Jobs have been satisfied with the user interface, packagin, design and intuitiveness of the products in question...including home automation?

B

bsantini:

My reply would be:

Dear Tue:

Please use the following metric in evaluating all that B&O does:

Would Steve Jobs have been satisfied with the user interface, packagin, design and intuitiveness of the products in question...including home automation?

B

well Bose fails that test  

There is a Bose concept store within a store that used to sell B&O here in Toronto. My usual reaction to their products is 'wow, it sure does play loud'. The sales guys really like to crank it. Which is not how I listen at home. Anyway, I saw the videowave there. Possibly the fattest flat-screen TV ever made. How someone could think this is nicer looking than any other TV with a pair of B&O speakers sitting beside it, I don't know. It's 6 inches deep so if you wanted to wall-mount the set, it would be hanging 8" off the wall. Also, the picture seemed decidedly old school, not as contrasty as the best panels these days. But it does indeed play really loud!

Ryan:

There is a Bose concept store within a store that used to sell B&O here in Toronto. My usual reaction to their products is 'wow, it sure does play loud'. The sales guys really like to crank it. Which is not how I listen at home. Anyway, I saw the videowave there. Possibly the fattest flat-screen TV ever made. How someone could think this is nicer looking than any other TV with a pair of B&O speakers sitting beside it, I don't know. It's 6 inches deep so if you wanted to wall-mount the set, it would be hanging 8" off the wall. Also, the picture seemed decidedly old school, not as contrasty as the best panels these days. But it does indeed play really loud!

I agree!  I see why there would be a niche market for this, I guess, but Bose certainly doesn't have the 'style' element pinned down with this product.  $6000 (CAD) can by a much nicer TV and some awfully pretty wall mountable speakers . . .

If cost is even the remotest of concerns, I'm sure a spouse would likely see the light and opt for a better TV & stylized speaker package.  Then again the Bose name somehow holds a lot of cache for the rubes, and if $6000 is nothing to the buyer this product will probably do pretty well.

mike

I went to the Westfield Shopping Centre in London the week it was launched to have a look - and I must say the whole concept was very clever, the sound was incredible (coming from the body of a TV !!) - but the image quality wasn't really all that.

I did ask who made the panel for them, but the question was greeted as if i'd just said 'what time do you feed antelopes in the staff room?'...  Blank looks, then surprised faces, nobody knew - and they confessed they'd never even thought to ask.  

Lee

Ryan:

Possibly the fattest flat-screen TV ever made.

Actually I think the B&O 85" I saw is fatter ... but that includes all the stand mechanics and counter-balancing

My original point in mt opening post was not that I thought this was outstanding, but rather they way Bose was approaching the selling process was very smart (in my opinion) ... maybe as someone says later (in reply to your post) it is tailored for selling to the "rubes" !

None the less, my point to Tue (if he gets to read this), was that here is how someone is approaching the restructuring of their channel for low cost qualification, standardised value proposition, and therefore I presume quick profitable sales ....... without having to create a sub-brand

Fair enough. There are certainly similarities to the way the two brands are marketed - neither is generally sold alongside other brands, Bose have been doing the concept store thing for years and both are in the higher price ranges. Certainly it would seem that Bose are doing better in the North American market if we go by number of stores. Bose are very good at developing point-of-sale materials and canned demos to show off their product in the best light.

One of the annoying things about B&O showrooms is that a lot of them don't even show prices on the products, which leads to a 'if you have to ask you can't afford it' mentality. I'm sure a lot of people who can afford it end up walking out feeling intimidated.

9 LEE:

I did ask who made the panel for them, but the question was greeted as if i'd just said 'what time do you feed antelopes in the staff room?'...  Blank looks, then surprised faces, nobody knew - and they confessed they'd never even thought to ask.  

Lee

I'm surprised they didnt try to pass it off as their own!!! The arrogant bunch at my local Bose store would have.

In Frankfurt am Main this weekend, I walked by a Bose store and decided to go in.

The staff was quite young, impersonal, and seemingly velcro-stuck to one of the walls, as they stayed there in the same standing position, during the entire time of my visit.

I looked at the Videowave and the Soundlink or " Beolit " type-radio mentioned before. Nice finish, but that is about it. WIFI connect to the Soundlink speaker only is hardly a Beolit or Beosound 3 competitor.

I smiled and thanked them for (non-demonstration) allowing me to look at the products during my visit. The velcro evidently was still holding up well as I passed by the front glass outside.

Embarrassing: Keep moving. Bang & Olufsen has nothing to worry about here.

SWISS_2:

Embarrassing: Keep moving. Bang & Olufsen has nothing to worry about here.

I missed you posting this earlier !

But the reason for resurrecting this thread is that this weekend the colour magazines that come "free" with the newspaper had several half-page or full-page adverts by Bose.

It seems that they are now selling a form of the speaker I described as a standalone (similar to the BL 7s, long and "thin") for use with ANY flat panel television.

Also we had the Danish Royals in Australia last week (the princess is Australian) and LEGO took advantage of their presence to sponsor events.

Did B&O ?

Sadly no.

Or sadly I was not invited

elephant:

But the reason for resurrecting this thread is that this weekend the colour magazines that come "free" with the newspaper had several half-page or full-page adverts by Bose.

Actually, so do B&O in the UK. Bose are advertising, but so are B&O. There are magazine adverts for the current TV trade-in offer and the BS8 as a Christmas present idea (expensive present, I'll be fair).

As for the comment about sales people being velcro-stuck to the wall. Actually, some people prefer this approach. Especially Brits. We Brits, as an example, often think we "know it all" and like to be left alone to browse, until we ask for some help. Not the other way around. We don't often like to be approached. Indeed, a few years ago a friend of mine really wanted a Beosound 1. He was nervous about going in to a B&O store. He eventually decided he'd go in to the store and, almost immediately, a sales person came over to him and started to talk to him about B&O TVs and why they are so good blah blah, forgetting a) it was his first visit (he never asked), b) that he was in for a Beosound 1 and c) that he had a budget of about £1000 max and a £7000 B&O TV was never even vaguely on his horizon.

He never returned nor bought a Beosound 1 :(

So, the velcro-stuck approach can and does work depending on your customer. A good salesman will know when to intervene or not. A bad sales person will believe that he has to jump in as soon as the customer enters the store.

I appreciate your thoughts and point regarding sales methods. And I certainly agree that a good salesperson knows how far to " read " a client and when to speak. I agree with your thoughts regarding British customs, having lived and worked there for many years.

I don't believe though that I am the only person to have travelled to North America, and observed the  " ARE YOU FINDING EVERYTHING YOU NEED " ? statement when shopping. Or in restaurants, when served winne, a salad, or first course, the equally loud " IS EVERYTHING OK WITH YOUR MEAL " ?  Perhaps that question would be more appropriate at the end of the meal, especially when one settles the cheque. And yes, when compared to the British or most Europeans, our American cousins are rarely introverted.

My wife and I heard " HAVE I GIVEN YOU EXCELLENT SERVICE " ? so frequently there it became laughable. I asked the then store owner of the Rodeo Drive B&O store about this trend, and he explained it was actually stressed in training and an job expectation in other retail businesses in North America. " Kind of a unfortunate mantra. "

My observation then regarding Bose versus Bang & Olufsen Frankfurt was to draw distinctions between not only the products, but the manner in which they are displayed and demonstrated. B&O sales staff are usually composed, professional, and friendly. I have yet to meet one that did not have the time to chat and be sincerely interested in B&O products and how they work. I have read complaints on this forum, but never seen such behaviour in any of the stores I have visited in Europe, North America, the Middle East, Brasil, and Asia.

The BOSE people on the other hand, did not move from the same spot against the wall during my entire visit, as if holding up the wall behind them. They were not sitting behind a desk, or working on anything, just chatting. When asked about the BOSE wave and videowave, it was just pointed out as " over there. " on the stand.

Can you envision someone with B&O chatting along, and when asked about the new Beosound 5  Encore  simply saying  " .... uh, over there " ?

Were three young people covering up a large hole in the wall, or something they didn't want me to see ?  Were they just caught doing isometric exercises against the wall ? I have no idea, but the concept of idleness comes to mind. Does that conduct define a professional ? How does one sell any products that way, aside from velcro ?

I received more of a positive demonstration of BOSE when my navigator went out on my Porsche during warranty, but come to think of it that was a Porsche employee. Perhaps that is the way of BOSE today: We're a big company, we're German, so we don't have to give a care. Remarkable.

I've not experienced this with anyone connected with Bang & Olufsen. And that is why I expressed the fact that as a result, B&O has nothing to worry about with BOSE. There is a difference, and not only price.

SWISS_2:

I've not experienced this with anyone connected with Bang & Olufsen. And that is why I expressed the fact that as a result, B&O has nothing to worry about with BOSE. There is a difference, and not only price.

Agree with everything you say. Very good post.

I would add though that B&O do actually have a big worry. Getting people in the store in the first place! It's not easy. I go in to my local store fairly often and it's very rare to see anyone under 40. I'm probably their youngest customer (at 38). They don't get much footfall at all and, those who do come in just have a quick wander and leave. The store told me that most of their business comes from installs, commissioned work and people calling the store!

The only advantage Bose have is that the stores are a little more welcoming from the outside. More Sony than B&O. I can image their target audience is slightly different from B&O's current demographic - more likely to be people under 40. Their products are, on the whole, fairly low cost. Maybe doesn't help that B&O dealers often position an expensive TV in their window.....with a price tag!

Its not just the price tag or all the new jewellery shops that have recently oepened touting Breitling/Rolex wouldn't exist. The Bose stores are usually in popular public retail areas, not in a back street in the trendy part of town. Their doors are always open and you are invited to try things out by enthusiastic staff.

One of my local stores(not my most local) looked at me with disgust for attempting to actually enter his shop.......with children!!!! You are selling hifi gear and don't forget it my T..... Anyway no sale. There is still a perception that B&O is Phillips wrapped up in stylish clothing, something B&O does vitrually nothing to dispell and so easily could. The Bose shop is full of literature exclaiming their research etc

On a different note, one of the class warriors at work who always comments very negatively on B&O for being just a Samsung etc, wasn't very pleased when i recently informed him that his new Leica camera he is very proud of, has a sensor made by KODAK. Oh how i laughed, and the message did sink in, albeit eventually

Chris:

Its not just the price tag or all the new jewellery shops that have recently oepened touting Breitling/Rolex wouldn't exist. The Bose stores are usually 

Chris, that's a slightly different proposition. People who are willing to consider a Rolex know what they are getting before they consider going to the store. Also, and more important, most people go out to buy one watch, once, then keep it. You know it's an expensive product, but you've weighed up the pros/cons before making the purchase. You don't even need about being sold a warranty.

With B&O most of the general public don't know what they need, have no idea about the extras (stands, remotes, loudspeakers) and understand that they are going to easily end up with a bigger bill than they expected. It wasn't so long ago that some of the cheaper B&O TVs were priced without a remote, for example. I asked my dealer how they got away with pricing up a TV that could only be turn on by a remote, without a remote, and he didn't know. I'm surprised B&O didn't get in to trouble in the UK for that (and I've noticed that all prices now include a remote).

With a Rolex, price tag in the window or not, what you see is what you get. You can then make your decision at home, figure if it can be afforded, then walk in and buy (knowing you've figured you can afford it).

A B&O store is very different as it's actually really tricky to understand the final cost after seeing a price tag for a £7900 TV in the window. If £7900 isn't shock enough in the first place, will you pay £7900 or, realistically, £8900? A lot of people feel out of their depth in this scenario as you can't evaluate whether you can afford something without going in to the store - so getting them in the store is the hard part