Hi:

 

My friend is in the market for an MP3 player. She really likes my Avant and I am thus converting her to B&O slowly. She dislikes Apple's Ipod. Her reasons being that they are over priced and without hacking proprietry software and file formats have to be used to access them (I know nmothing of MP3s as I am still quite happy with my CDs so I don't know how valid these statements are).

 I have recommended that she buy a B&O MP3 player namely a Beosound 2 pending the advice on here as she wants something stylish and likes the design. However, she is not that happy about the memory capacity - 2gb cards. Is this because at the time 2gb was the biggest card available or because the player can only handle that size?

 

Also can anyone provide any random information about both of the MP3 players that B&O produce - namely are they any good or style over substance? (I know to a certain degree this is down to personal opinion. However, I would argue that the mobile phones made by B&O are an example of this). Also, is there a mandatory file format or is conversion and upload easy? Furthermore the latest MP3 player really looks like a Samsung. Is this another partnership deal and thus if she bought the latest MP3 player is she really buying a Samsung with a leather case?

 Thanks

 

Graham

 

PS This is not a lets slate B&O exercise - I am an enthusiast of the products. However, honest opinions from like enthusiasts wil help her make the decision. There are less than favourable reviews on the net for Beosound 2. However, these are often curried with envy and just plain, unhelpful rudeness.

Hello Graham,

I'm not completely sure but as far as I know the Beosound 2 can handle no more than 2 gb cards. Personally I love the design of the Beosound 2 but I'm not impressed with the user interface.

The Beosound 6 is a rebadged Samsung item but it uses an algorithm (needed to play the MP3's) unique to B&O. I'm told it sounds better than an Ipod, but I still haven't tried one myself. 

Yes I was a bit concerned about the interface on the Beosound 2 - is it just overly simplistic and thus unhelpful/difficult to use or just boring for such an expensive item when new? I mean if she gets one off of Ebay for sub £100 then I guess it won't matter

I don't understand your friend's logic when it comes to the iPod so perhaps you could put her straight on a few things: the 8GB iPod nano at £129 is, in my opinion, about as good as you can get value-for-money wise.

Apple have hit the sweet spot here in terms of price, features and overall quality. Excellent sound quality, video playback, portability, memory (even the 4GB at £99 is excellent).

It's a common misconception that the iPods use a proprietary format. They can use the AAC format, it's true (better quality at lower bitrates) but they're just as at ease with MP3s. They're extremely user-friendly...I don't see any issue here

The B&O players, on the other hand, are overpriced! Though, their sound quality may be excellent...

Hi, Graham.

I have the BS 2.  I like the sound (I use it with the A8 earphones.)  I like the hefty feel of it.  It is also distinctive in its shape.  I do not know the reason it is limited to 2 gig but generally the battery in my BS2 will be low in power before all 2 gig of songs are played.  I do not like the difficult time that I have uploading songs.  (One time, it took two B&O sales staff to try to figure out how to do this.  Then, it took the one staff who knew what to do about another hour to upload my music from my laptop [after he returned to the shop].  This one staff has indicated that he no longer has the time to provide this service -- which I think is rude and the wrong attitude.  The latest occasion, I went to another B&O shop with my BS2 and laptop.  The sales clerk spent about 3 hours transferring my music to the 2 gig disk [I have a very old and slow laptop].  Then the BS2 wouldn't play the SD card so I left the BS2 and the SD card at the shop overnight.  He managed to get everything working by the next day.)

I have not used iPods so I cannot comment.  I have not bought the new BS6 but did try it out in the shop for a few minutes -- see my earlier thread on this.  I thought it felt light.  I also did not like the shiny aluminum around the display which reflected the light into my eyes.  The shape is similar to an iPod.  Also, the backside of the BS6 is marked "Samsung".

Hope this helps.

She'd be silly not to at least have a try of an iPod before deciding on another route, if even just for comparisons sake. They are very easy to use and are not expensive (8gb for ~£99, 80gb for ~£150).

In format terms they can handle most formats very well,

The iPod supports the following formats: AAC, MP3 (Constant and Variable Bit Rates), WAV, AIFF, Audible, and the Apple Lossless Encoder. iPods do not directly support Windows Media Audio (WMA), but iTunes can easily convert to the iPod-compatible format of your choice.

You are correct about proprietary software (iTunes) being required to manage the music in the iPod (and album artwork, movies etc) but it is not a complete disaster in that it manages your music collection very well, gives you search and cataloging facilities and connects you to the iStore (should you be swayed to buy downloads) and can act as your media player if you wish. Not as straight forward as drag and drop but worth the sacrifice in order to use the iPod (mines 30gb) IMO.

I have only really had secondary experience of using Ipods namely uploading music to the original Ipod shuffle (the USB stick one) and to the original Ipod Nano. I personally really did not like the interface, I must be a  complete monkey but I cannot get to grips with that wheel device. Perhaps it takes longer than the five mins I spent on the device but I found that I took two steps forward in a menu before ten back. This is my fault I guess for not using the interface properly but if it is meant to be intuitive why was I finding it difficult?

 

Also what I didn't like about Itunes was that you could (perhaps this has changed) only upload music and update libraries on the host PC if you tried on another it would overwrite your existing tracks - not good, but then perhaps this is because I do not understand how to use the system.

I think the main reason for her not getting an Ipod is the David and Goliath argument (Linux/Microsoft) - Ipods have become synonymous with the term MP3 even though there may well be better machines on the market. Many people on this thread seem to be pro Ipod and I too am coming around to the world of Mac. However, I think she objects to the geeky following that Mac have acquired. I know countless people that seem to have bought a Mac for no other reason than that it is “cool”. Again this maybe a style issue and not a technically sound argument. However, it does hold some weight I guess.

Sounds like she is cutting off her nose to spite her face. I never understand why people base their purchasing decisions on anything but trying out the product and doing a bit of research!

The wheel is certainly easier to use than all the other (noname) mp3 players I've had in the past.

In terms of "syncing" your ipod (as they insist on calling it, similar to pda's etc) you have the option to do it automatically (as you've exerienced you lose existing tracks) or manually when you can add or delete as you wish.

I too am against the "cool" fraternity but bought mine because it was the all round best, easiest to use 30gb player at the time.

(I have seen some who "wear" there Apple products and agree they do the brand no favours)

With the Beosound 2, can one simply drag and drop audio files onto the card and then shove the card into the player or does there need to be some B&O software intervention?

 I have seen those silly arm band things with Ipods attached but I was refering to students (I was one until last year) who sit in coffee shops with a macbook pretending to do work when in fact they are just showing off that they have a mac.Fair enough if you are a designer doing work on Photoshop but if you are a history/classics student you are just being pretentious in my opinion. However, perhaps I should just live and let live and encourage my friend to do the same,

I am still strugging to grasp the premise  behind the question. Migrating to the Beosund 2 because the iPod is overpriced is a bit like migrating to an Audi TT because a Vauxhall Vectra Estate  is too expensive, it just doesn't have any logic to it.

The Beosound 2 has it's strengths but 'Bang per  Buck'  has never been one of them. If The iPod has way more features for the money and if you spend a little time googling you will see that it is perfectly possible to bypass iTunes and do your own thing with it.

Simon

I just bought the beosound 6 Why ? I like the persional design of B&O

Than about that it is a samsung... In every audio tv lcd pc are componeds from diffrent marks also in your I pod

sound  I use the nice A8 included in the price and my form 2 both have a very nice sound

interface I had to get used to it but this went very fast ( old man)

putting songs on the beosoud with beoplayer or windows media player no problem

storage do you want 1000 songs on your player?

design again very nice quality materials no plastik and a nice case

 It al depence your persional taste

 

gr Eric

ps sound quality is very depending how you rip your cd and the quality of this cd and of course what do you get from the internet.

• Graham1982:

With the Beosound 2, can one simply drag and drop audio files onto the card and then shove the card into the player or does there need to be some B&O software intervention?

 I have seen those silly arm band things with Ipods attached but I was refering to students (I was one until last year) who sit in coffee shops with a macbook pretending to do work when in fact they are just showing off that they have a mac.Fair enough if you are a designer doing work on Photoshop but if you are a history/classics student you are just being pretentious in my opinion. However, perhaps I should just live and let live and encourage my friend to do the same,

I agree with Wirralsimon - I can't see the logic of buying the B&O Mp3 player when an iPod is considered expensive - I've had my 30Gb one for 3 years and it's full - I will buy another iPod with a bigger drive though.

On another note am I right that at least the iPod can be used at home and controlled through a Beo4 (ridax etc.) but that the B&O one can't?

If it the B&O MP3 integrated with your B&O stereo and was linkable seemlessly - i.e. a docking station with Masterlink - then it would be priceless... I'm thinking press A.MEM and it acts as the hard drive in BS3200 does.

I guess she means and I follow her argument to some extent that Ipods are or were pricey for the sake of it. So are B&O but they have always been and are/were more innovative than most other products. It would appear from the responses in this thread that in this case like with the B&O mobiles (in my opinion) that the MP3s are not really that innovative. They look nice and sound good but there isn't anything different about them like a rotating stand or electronic curtains although that would obviously be very interesting on a device that size!

 I bought my B&O Avant and am soon to buy a Beovision 1 because they look good, sound good and are innovative. However, I would not buy a B&O plasma because in my opinion there is nothing special about them. The Besound 2 does look different and feels like it is a quality piece of equipment. Perhaps both my friend and I are unfairly biased against Mac and that is what is currying our decisions.

 

ajames:

On another note am I right that at least the iPod can be used at home and controlled through a Beo4 (ridax etc.) but that the B&O one can't?

If it the B&O MP3 integrated with your B&O stereo and was linkable seemlessly - i.e. a docking station with Masterlink - then it would be priceless... I'm thinking press A.MEM and it acts as the hard drive in BS3200 does.

Well, maybe it's just about being more organised (ie you should have all your music on your hard drive - which I don't, mind you, as I'm not that organized!): when home just hit the button called N.MUSIC on your Beo4 - and enjoy the tune where ever in the house you have had installed your speakers... for what do you need your iPod - or BS2 - when at home?

Having ALL your music on your hard drive and in your portable player (sync'ed database at any given time, any place) would though be interesting, I agree ...

No contest - I have an iPod because it is simply better in every way. The sound quality of the BS2 is very good but record the tracks at a good rate, and use the right headphones, and the iPod is just as good. iTunes is just so superior to Beoplayer that once used, you will not go back. I use MP3 as I can use the tracks on any PC or Mac.

Interesting thread.

I use iPods. Your friend is confused, and should do a little research into what iPods actually do - if she wants, she can get a 20.000 dollar diamond covered Shuffle at GUM in Moscow, that should make it distinct enough.

Musicians, artists, photographers, film makers, composers, architects, scenographers, choreographers, directors, cinematographers, etc. use Macs. Tough crowd to please - and they find the Macs very good as personal and collaborative tools. She can always mention that to friends if she gets the hickups seeing someone too cool for their own good using one. 

Peter :

No contest - I have an iPod because it is simply better in every way. The sound quality of the BS2 is very good but record the tracks at a good rate, and use the right headphones, and the iPod is just as good. iTunes is just so superior to Beoplayer that once used, you will not go back. I use MP3 as I can use the tracks on any PC or Mac.

Ditto

Although just recently I transferred my iTunes folder to an external (usb powered) 160gb drive as the IT guys at work were getting a bit uppitty about the amount of music on my works laptop (the iTunes app is still on the laptop). Works just fine.

I have a BS2, and I am very happy about it.

I want to hear 5-8 of my favorite albums (which changes from time to time...), so I do not find the memory to be insufficient. Normally I have the player in my pocket, and the fact that you can change volume, track or album while it is in my pocket is a nice feature. It even works through jeans.

An iPod has many features - yes - but I just want to press GO and listen to my favorite music.

I would buy one again today, if I did not have my BS2.

Before I go on, I'm an iPod fan so I'm evidently going to be biased! I've had 3 iPods and they've all been fantastic (and all still work fine more or less).

The B&O MP3 players do sound better, it's true, but you'd expect them to given the cost. The BeoSound 6 is a big step up from the iPod in terms of sound. However, she will find it to be more limiting than the iPod when it comes to which formats it supports.

In fact, the iPod is probably the most 'format compatible' player on the market. The misconception that it's locked into formats comes from the fact that the iTunes Music Store uses 'protected AAC' files, which are very limiting. However, I've only ever bought two songs on the iTunes music store - it's just not really for me. I rip all my music from CDs, and I've found iTunes to be great at handling different formats. It supports MP3 and AAC at all bitrates, AIFF and WAV at all different settings and Apple lossless. The only thing it'll encounter issues with is FLAC (which is very rarely used) and WMA (although the Windows version of iTunes can convert these files). The iPods don't lock you into formats at all - in fact they're very forgiving to different kinds of formats...

The B&O MP3 players are great though, but very different to the iPods. The focus seems to be on the sound quality. I personally have fallen for the CoverFlow, but the choice between which menu system you think is better is all down to the user.

I know Coverflow is a big marketing tool but I find it of limited use. Consider browsing through your CD collection at home - you tend to know roughly where something is and then search the spines to find it. If you have a 30gb (or larger) ipod full of albums I find it quicker to browse alphabetically through the album titles (when they go to "quick scan" i.e. initial letters - I can't remember the Apple term) and then slow down to find what I want. Sometimes the coverflow can be "fiddly" to arrive where you want.

Now there's an objective opinion for you

True, although I only have CoverFlow on my Nano, my 80gb iPod is of the previous generation with nothing but a boring list of artist names.

My Nano only carries my favourite albums plus a few new ones to listen to and it works beautifully...

I am with Puncher! I have a 160Gb Classic (125Gb of music and rising!) and find the cover flow pretty but not that useful! The software doesn't automatically find album covers for classical music that well so listings are more useful. The iPod Touch is better with cover flow as it has fewer albums on. I am using that at the minute as I have lent the classic to a friend who is in hospital.