Hello,

The Beogram 4002 is a nice turntable to behold, nobody will doubt this.

However, I have compared it to my Beogram 8000 just out of curiosity. Here are my humble conclusions.

1/ Soundwise, there is not much. Once properly set-up, both sound good. 

2/ I think the 8000, although often criticized for its "cheap" construction, with more plastic and pressed steel instead of castings, is more elegant.

    Its mechanism is much more silent, with muted clunks and silky movements (plastic parts?). It is also faster in operation. 

3/ I just love the clever tangential drive on the 8000, but the 4002 seems to have more torque,in spite of the smallish motor (but then no classic turntable—Thorens et all—has a DC servo motor, which by the way is back into fashion as an option on posh turntables, and at a silly price…)

4/ The 4002 bearing is a funny design, with reduced contact areas, when the 8000 one has a classic bearing which is very precise: launch it gently, have a cup of coffee (or tea!), come back and it will still be spinning! I wonder about the Beogram 4000 then.

5/ Finally, working on a 4002 is much easier, connectors are sturdier (double rows of solders to the PCB), and there are more adjustments to the arm, which is much less flimsy!

Jacques

Interesting thoughts. I have had the full range of the Beograms of this type and agree and disagree !

chartz:

Hello,

The Beogram 4002 is a nice turntable to behold, nobody will doubt this.

However, I have compared it to my Beogram 8000 just out of curiosity. Here are my humble conclusions.

1/ Soundwise, there is not much. Once properly set-up, both sound good. 

Can't disagree much with this - the cartridge makes more difference. One of my freinds reckons he can hear the coils on an 8000 but I can't!

2/ I think the 8000, although often criticized for its "cheap" construction, with more plastic and pressed steel instead of castings, is more elegant.

    Its mechanism is much more silent, with muted clunks and silky movements (plastic parts?). It is also faster in operation. 

Matter of taste - I prefer the 4000 series which looks more classical - not much in the speed and I don't think either are that quiet! 

3/ I just love the clever tangential drive on the 8000, but the 4002 seems to have more torque,in spite of the smallish motor (but then no classic turntable—Thorens et all—has a DC servo motor, which by the way is back into fashion as an option on posh turntables, and at a silly price…)

The 4000 has an AC motor and a much heavier platter - this is the best in my experience. I agree about the lack of torque of the 8000 - cleaning the record is the easiest way to show this.The DC motor was a cost cutting measure. 

4/ The 4002 bearing is a funny design, with reduced contact areas, when the 8000 one has a classic bearing which is very precise: launch it gently, have a cup of coffee (or tea!), come back and it will still be spinning! I wonder about the Beogram 4000 then.

Not a fair comparison - take the belt off the 4002 and it will spin for ages - the 4000 even longer. The 4000 bearing is massive in comparison to either the 4002 or 8000.

5/ Finally, working on a 4002 is much easier, connectors are sturdier (double rows of solders to the PCB), and there are more adjustments to the arm, which is much less flimsy!

Very true - the 8000 is a complete pain to take apart - the suspension has to be disassembled whereas you can strip the top panels off the 4000 in less than a minute and still play the deck.

Jacques

Doctor:

...The 4002 bearing is a funny design, with reduced contact areas, when the 8000 one has a classic bearing which is very precise: launch it gently, have a cup of coffee (or tea!), come back and it will still be spinning! I wonder about the Beogram 4000 then.

Not a fair comparison - take the belt off the 4002 and it will spin for ages - the 4000 even longer. The 4000 bearing is massive in comparison to either the 4002 or 8000.

I meant belt off of course! The 8000 platter will turn 25% longer than the 4002! (45 sec. from 33rpm for the 8000)

As a matter of comparison, my virtually new SL-1200 mkII will come to a stop after 25 sec. !

This confirms what you say actually!

Jacques

One of my freinds reckons he can hear the coils on an 8000 but I can't!

When you say coils, I am assuming you mean the coils of the linear motor buzzing but is this through the speakers or deck, or both?

I agree that the 4000 series are a much better design, and in particular the elegance of the 4000 can't be beaten. I personally don't like the 8000 series, although the 8002 get's better with a the redesigned platter and arms.

I would like to have seen a smalller version of the 4000 series, I keep meaning to have a dabble in PSP but my skills aren't that great!

On the other issue the 4000 is also extremly quiet compared to later 4002 decks, partly due to B&O switching to a plastic cased servo motor with foam damping as opposed to the metal rubber damped motor before it. However I would like someone to confirm that the early ac 400X decks also had this metal motor? Can't comment on the 8000 series as I have not yet seen one in the flesh!

The other change of course was the use of micro switches as opposed to simple leaf switches. I personally find that the clicks undermine the design and quality of these decks and am surprised B&O made this change!

As for the platters I will have to get round to doing a 33 to 0 test with my reserected 4000 / 4002 then my recently aquired but not serviced (with siezed solenoid) 4004 to see what differences there are!

Olly.

Hi,

I would really fancy trying a Beogram 4000 bearing and platter on the 4002. Has anyone ever done this?

Here's a challenge! I'm ready to pay if anyone's got a scrap BG 4000. I could even fabricate a new motor pulley if that's required.

Anybody?

Hi Jaques there is no need as there are 4002 - 6000's with the Beogram 4000 platters and motors I would be almost certain they have the same bearings! I think the consensus is they used up old stock before economising a little :) However I think it was Peter above who said he could never hear in difference in performance between the different decks...

I think (although confirmation from the likes of Martin would be best) that the only external difference is possibly the ribs on the platter being thinner on the early AC motor versions (go here for pics)  but I can not state this with any authority! Type number I would think should also tell you but I do not have such detailed information.

From 33 1/3 I get 35 seconds for my serviced 4002, 24 secs for unserviced 4004 and the winner is 1 minute 54 secs for the Beogram 4000!

chartz:

 

I meant belt off of course! The 8000 platter will turn 25% longer than the 4002! (45 sec. from 33rpm for the 8000)

As a matter of comparison, my virtually new SL-1200 mkII will come to a stop after 25 sec. !

This confirms what you say actually!

 

Jacques

 

 

Wow... Now I've got to have one! 

Like I said Jaques, it is worth asking Martin or other users if the 4000 bearing was used in the later range for a while, I am almost certain it will be! Anyway at the very least these models are a lot cheaper to purchase and hell of a lot simpler to service should things go wrong as a result!