Just  got round to buying this fantastic reference book (Browns on abebooks.co.uk).... they still have several copies at £16.03 and they appear to be first printings/ first editions.

For those of us catching up on models ignored over the years or for new collectors it makes great reading. If there's anything to criticise (and I am no expert) I was surprised to see some Beovox's missing from the listings and there are probably a few more groups of equipment that match or are compatible with each other than given in the 'System Builder' section.

Presumably because it's aimed at collectors it stops at 2000, so we find reference to Avants finishing with curved/framed screen VCR models. Interestingly, Tim & Nick really slate this particular Avant as having poor quality tubes unlikely to last as long as many much earlier TVs. When I bought my 32 Avant DVD I got a long story from the dealer about how B&O paid a premium price for the very best Philips tubes....... much better grade tubes than those tubes used by Philips in their own TVs or supplied to others. After the comments in this book about the earlier model, should we ccnclude that B&O let standards slip at some point and then over-corrected with the next model? I think if this book had come out a few years earlier it might have been enough to convince me (incorrectly?)  that the the 32DVD Avant should also be avoided in case the same quality standards were still being used!

Dealers now seem to be moving on from the Avants but how did they find tube reliability in the different Avants? (Lee???)

We obviously need an updated book or supplement in 5 years time if not before!

Graham

Graham,

With regards to the early AVANT's I have to agree with Tim & Nick, the reliability of the tubes was not good with common problems including arcing between electrodes and one colour often red showing as a dominating colour.

Also remember that around the time of the early AVANT's Philips became a major shareholder of B&O.

The reason the book only goes to 2000 is, as explained in the book, because it was at this point B&O stopped releasing proper service manuals and relied on module replacement instead. Much easier to do clearly, as long as the modules are available. Once they are not, the sets become next to unrepairable.

This is why you will find many collectors focus on  the older models as they can be made to work at a component level. They are also very much designed to be serviced.

Peter :

The reason the book only goes to 2000 is, as explained in the book, because it was at this point B&O stopped releasing proper service manuals and relied on module replacement instead. Much easier to do clearly, as long as the modules are available. Once they are not, the sets become next to unrepairable.

This is why you will find many collectors focus on  the older models as they can be made to work at a component level. They are also very much designed to be serviced.

Keith,

Thanks for your Philips influence comment. Still begs the question why was this model so poor. (Aren't Philips own TVs generally OK from this period???)

Peter,

Yes, I picked-up the module comment (and also read your initial excellent review (which also seems to be the only one on Amazon!))

I was really trying to get at whether the 28 Avant was really so bad, and whether its reputation might be extended to the 32 DVD by implication by anyone reading the book. And on reflection, I can't see why there wont be collectors of current and future equipment: some will not be repairable, some will prove to be durable, and some will become rare and valuable!  So I don't think future books/ reviews should be ruled out.

Graham

I agree completely. However I doubt Tim will write it. On the Avant 32 DVD, I have one of these and like it a lot. Because it is a 100Hz model, there are some artefacts in the picture but the tubes do seem rather better than the old ones. I like the Avant - good picture and sound - and find it more pleasing that any of the LCD sets presently available.

Well, as you asked me directly - so shall i comment !!

Yes, the Jarman brothers are naturally correct.  The 28" curved screen tubes are 'popping' with alarming regularity.  I refused to stock them at LifeStyle AV about 2 years ago due to this.  Now, i will only take them in part exchange and then sell them on ebay with a 30 day warranty as i do all my ebay sales.

The RF versions tend to fare better, but perhaps simply because they are newer?  I would say around 1 in 30 suffer with tube failure at around 6-7 years old as a rough guess from speaking to dealers, engineers and my own experiences..  The BeoVision 3's with the same tube and chassis tend to be the main culprits for some strange reason!

Here are my findings with CRT Televisions.  I would also like the input of Jason at Iconic too here.. although he may not be as experienced (in time) dealing with the products, he invariably goes through the same rigmorole of faults and talks a lot of sense!

BeoVision 1 - Bulletproof.. never had a tube fail in all my time. Incredibly reliable.

BeoCenter 1 - Tube bulletproof, DVD Mech flaky as hell.. replaced loads.

MX Range - Tube bulletproof, never replaced one yet and never had any problems. A great TV.

AV9000 - Tube okay, seen a few blown but not loads. Usually the mechanical curtains that die or the VCR Mech goes boom.

Curved Screen Avant - 28" getting very flaky, blowing regularly.  32" seem a lot stronger, only ever seen 2 blown.

RF Screen Avant - Never had a 28" blow on me and have never heard of one going, but have seen a number of 32" versions gone.

BeoVision 3 - Never seen a 28" blown, but seen quite a few 32" versions gone. The 'Red Lines' are a dead giveaway!

As for the older LX ranges and the like, i rarely see them to be honest so cannot comment.  However, i regularly get people talking to me with LX5500's, LX6000's and the like still going strong today!!

Take from that what you will - it's just an honest account of my experiences dealing with B&O day-to-day...

Lee

9 LEE:

Well, as you asked me directly - so shall i comment !!

....................................................................

Take from that what you will - it's just an honest account of my experiences dealing with B&O day-to-day...

Lee

 

Thanks Lee. I'm sure many will find your advice invaluable.  (Still, nothing in this thread really explains just how B&O can get (one??) TV so wrong unless there's something to be read into Keith's comment re Philip's shareholding.)

Returning to the book, like many others I'm sure the first thing we all do is to look up our own equipment. If it's not there, the next question is whether this is because it is extremely rare or of no consequence! Couldn't find my Beogram 1203 which is well documented elswhere and a derivative of the 1202. Couldn't find my Beovox 2600's which were definitely recommended for the 1200 Beomaster as the better speakers. These speakers are on this site and on Beocentral. However, they are different from mine!  Badges/logos are completely different and in different locations on the grille. Probably just a minor update, but maybe I need to write the missing reviews and provide further pictures!

Graham

Well my 2 Beovisions are still going strong.

LX5500 not used much these days but it's still working great despite being from 1989.

AV9000 '98 IMP version. Had the typical MX trouble with powersupply etc. Went to Struer to be serviced twice and now seems to be just as strong as the LX5500 but I do have a hard time in saying the AV9000 is the better of the two.

The trouble is not really tube related but powersupply.

My US version of the MX5000 still works which I think is amazing for a 20 year old TV.

I ordered the Tim Jarman book from Amazon UK and I couldn't help but notice the review.  The review is extremely well done Peter!

You are very kind! However some more reviews would be good so any owners should really add their thoughts. I know Nick and Tim would appreciate it.

vikinguk:

Thanks for your Philips influence comment. Still begs the question why was this model so poor. (Aren't Philips own TVs generally OK from this period???)

 

Well, not all of them. For some reason, the tubes are fine, but they have managed to construct a self-destructing CPU for them. A well known failure, but still they (or perhaps just the Finnish importer?)  tried to wiggle out of it every time it happened after the warranty was out.

Personally, very true, Mika and others - not least Tim's book ... mine 28 CTV had to be fixed, too, and luckily it was. For some reason, not always possible according to the technician! I pressume it will continue going on strong for years as it, indeed, has done since the fix. (Still a great linkroom TV, though 9+ years old!)

Btw, the problems started after some 7+ years since new, and the symptoms were kind of "white noise" screen and corresponding (annoyingly loud) "sound" with which the right picture and sound had been more and more frequently interrupted right after switching the TV on (to video mode). Briefly, as it was in the link room, I'd in vain hoped the problem was somewhere with ML/connections ... 

Service counters now read:

Standby (days) 2375

Audio mode (days) 0054

Video mode (days) 0611

On/Off (times*10)  0660

A bit more on the ''bad model'' Avant: the Avant was/is/will be the best CRT tv ever made imho, and that includes the 28" version (the chassis is the almost the same anyway as the 32'').

Also the Philips ERF/ESF tubes in the Avant were really great in picture quality (i'd never swap my avant for an MX!) BUT: apparently due to some trouble (dust ?) in the manufacturing process a lot of these tubes went too soon, it seems the ones made in 1998-2001 were the real troublemakers.

Not only B&O but also Loewe, JVC, Philips (!) had problems due to this.

Too bad Avants (and in a way B&O) got a bit of a bad name with this although of course nobody could look into the future....

So: not any Avant is a 'poor quality' tv, just troubled by a part which showed to be a 'time-bomb'.

The RF / DVD types have newer tubes, i'm sure Philips learned from the mistake (which, without a doubt costed them lots of money) and my guess is chances are really small that tube goes fast (and i never see them offered or hear about that).

But there are also still pefect, razorsharp early 90's Avants around.....

There is piles of info on the web and this forum about these (ESF/ERF) tubes and their problems, so it has nothing to do with B&O chosing for 'poor quality', on the contrary: it's just bad luck.

Lee - in your experience what about the AV5?