General Forum

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Puncher — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:24:20 GMT

moxxey:
Puncher:

I think the point is that, as you say, most folk..
Most = majority. How many people have Sky? Less than 4 million homes? I know more people who *don't* have Sky or cable than do. Mainly as most apartments are rented.
Most folk still watch either analogue or digital/Freeview in the UK. Ratio must be something like 80:20.

I'm with you - what I was trying to highlight was that even for those that do have Sky or cable it tends to be a main viewing room only solution - all other TV's in the house either need already or will need shortly a Freeview Tuner.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

moxxey — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:38:40 GMT

Puncher:
I think the point is that, as you say, most folk..

Most = majority. How many people have Sky? Less than 4 million homes? I know more people who *don't* have Sky or cable than do. Mainly as most apartments are rented.

Most folk still watch either analogue or digital/Freeview in the UK. Ratio must be something like 80:20.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Puncher — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:46:07 GMT

soundproof:

I may be totally missing the point here, but I really don't get this "they should have built in Freeview/DVB" and whatever.
As Daniel points out above, in most markets people are getting their tv-signals from a variety of providers, with an increasing portion of the same offering decoders/tuners for you to be able to access their signals.
I have a Pioneer Kuro with DVB built in, which I can't use because the Freeview standard here is MPEG4, not MPEG2. But I get every single available channel through an STB that's nicely placed out of view, through my remote.
In my market the Freeview is considered the last resort of those who can't get the richer and better signals (and number of channels) provided by cable and/or satellite. So I just don't get the fuss on this particular one - I'll criticize B&O for a lot of other stuff, but this one's a no-show on my list of complaints.

I think the point is that, as you say, most folk may have Sky or whatever for their main TV but for other TV's in the house this is much less likely and in the UK Freeview is almost a given, must have feature on any new TV (from 15" monitor type up to 60" main room TV's).

I'm prepared to let the argument rage about whether TV's such as the BV8 are worth anything near their asking price but I'm with Flappo here (and we have been known to disagree from time to time) - It is nothing short of amazingly lazy or narrow minded of B&O that they continue to sell umpty thousand pound TV's in the UK where, in some parts of the country, they are already unable to operate with the only free-to-air signal available (although the switchover to digital won't be complete until 2012 it has already happened in some parts of the country).

Sorry but just not good enough IMO.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

355f — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:57:36 GMT

soundproof:

I may be totally missing the point here, but I really don't get this "they should have built in Freeview/DVB" and whatever.
As Daniel points out above, in most markets people are getting their tv-signals from a variety of providers, with an increasing portion of the same offering decoders/tuners for you to be able to access their signals.
I have a Pioneer Kuro with DVB built in, which I can't use because the Freeview standard here is MPEG4, not MPEG2. But I get every single available channel through an STB that's nicely placed out of view, through my remote.
In my market the Freeview is considered the last resort of those who can't get the richer and better signals (and number of channels) provided by cable and/or satellite. So I just don't get the fuss on this particular one - I'll criticize B&O for a lot of other stuff, but this one's a no-show on my list of complaints.

The UK is one of the biggest markets for BnO and therefore it should offer DVB inbuilt - in order to suit the market they are attempting to do business in.

It is doubtful if sat gives a better signal in the UK rather than freeview( unless its HD) and many individuals( me for one) dont want sky.

Given these facts, what is not acceptable is to pay nearly £3000 and then have to go to Argos and buy a £30 DVB box in order to operate it with STB. On the many units I tried out with the Avant ( panasonic and topfiled) very often the box would not respond to commands and you needed to reset the unit- how bad is that?

Compare this to loewe- why dont they or any so called upmarket brand NOT include DVBif its such a good idea to use external boxes.

Whatever ones views for this kind of money they should include it anyway and there is no excuse for not doing so.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Flappo The Grate — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:07:21 GMT

it would be mine too , if it wasn't for the paucity of inputs on the average bno tv

once you've plugged in all the stuff that SHOULD be standard equipment on a tv costing so much , you're not really left with much in the way of alternative input arrangement

certainly not exactly what i'd call future ( 2012 ) proof

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

soundproof — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:39:16 GMT

I may be totally missing the point here, but I really don't get this "they should have built in Freeview/DVB" and whatever.

As Daniel points out above, in most markets people are getting their tv-signals from a variety of providers, with an increasing portion of the same offering decoders/tuners for you to be able to access their signals.
I have a Pioneer Kuro with DVB built in, which I can't use because the Freeview standard here is MPEG4, not MPEG2. But I get every single available channel through an STB that's nicely placed out of view, through my remote.

In my market the Freeview is considered the last resort of those who can't get the richer and better signals (and number of channels) provided by cable and/or satellite. So I just don't get the fuss on this particular one - I'll criticize B&O for a lot of other stuff, but this one's a no-show on my list of complaints.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Stars — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:21:45 GMT

Have done already. And a Wii.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Flappo The Grate — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:20:05 GMT

have fun plugging a ps3 in , etc

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Stars — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:53:27 GMT

I can't believe I never thought about this when I bought my BV8. I have SKY+ and a DVB for Italian channels plugged into the back of my BV8. Yes I have had to hide them away, but this wasn't such a big deal. More importantly I am able to use both boxes (and the TV of course) with my Beo4.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

ed7 — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:35:03 GMT

this is another nail in the coffin for b&o ,not as forward thinking company as we like to think, the company logo should say (customers always wrong ) [:'(]

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Daniel — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:58:48 GMT

moxxey:

One of the best elements of a B&O is the lack of cables and remotes, required. They are supposed to blend stylishly in the background. By requiring a separate Freeview box, you'd need to hide this somewhere and also accommodate the extra cabling.

This is an argument I like!

But what about those with DVB-S or DVB-C. Can B&O build these to, or are they not standard?

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

Flappo The Grate — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:55:45 GMT

my avant has 3 remotes as the sony freeview tuner in rgb 1 and the sony hd recorder in scart 2 don't have any bno compatible codes

tbh it looks a total mess and if bno don't get their act together on this front , when it comes to changing the tv for an hd model in a few years , i wont bother with them at all

when i bought the avant in 2003 i was assured there would be a freeview module ( never materialised ) and a hard disk recorder that slotted in the back ( more bs )

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

moxxey — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:11:31 GMT

355f:
There is simply NO excuse for B&O not to build DVB into the set

My argument was that the PCB required for this would be tiny. At the very least, it could be a modular option. It's not was if they'd need much space in the TV to accommodate a Freeview DVB-T.

335F is right though. One of the best elements of a B&O is the lack of cables and remotes, required. They are supposed to blend stylishly in the background. By requiring a separate Freeview box, you'd need to hide this somewhere and also accommodate the extra cabling.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

355f — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:05:46 GMT

ajames:
However in B&O's defence they do build in a set top box controller, giving the customer choice in the way in which they receive digital programs and it's upgradeable as technology changes - such as HD etc. Biggest plus point has to be that you can controll the box you choose with your B&O remote. On the other hand for the cost of building in Freeview then why not do it when all the other TV's in the UK have it as standard,

I can see why one can make an argument for not having DVB in built and that a set top box control offers the best compromise.

The problem I have with this; having spent 3-7K on a TV I dont want some crappy £50 box via STB control hanging from the back of the set, I used a panasonic with the avant, here were always problems with freezing and going 'out of sync' so one has to turn it all off and start again. What a way to expect a customer to operate an expensive TV. Loewe has the right idea- a premium price for a premium product.

There is simply NO excuse for B&O not to build DVB into the sets and if individuals choose to use STB control- thats their choice. The cost to bring this in as a standrad feature on the BV8 for example cant be more than $50 and for the price they are asking it is beyond comprehension.

Re: Big UK retailer to stop selling non-Freeview TVs

ajames — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:14:38 GMT

However in B&O's defence they do build in a set top box controller, giving the customer choice in the way in which they receive digital programs and it's upgradeable as technology changes - such as HD etc. Biggest plus point has to be that you can controll the box you choose with your B&O remote. On the other hand for the cost of building in Freeview then why not do it when all the other TV's in the UK have it as standard,