in Search
Untitled Page

ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
READ ONLY FORUM

This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 06-16-2009 12:59 PM by Beottaku. 113 replies.
Page 1 of 5 (114 items) 1 2 3 4 5 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • 06-03-2009 1:42 PM

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    BeoWorld and B&O..

    Not sure how to put this, so it may turn into a ramble - but bear with me..

    Bang & Olufsen have, under the wisdom of the 'new order', realised that web presence is becoming more and more important when it comes to brand awareness, new products and their associated marketing campaigns.  'Junk on the doormat' is becoming both costly and ineffective as more and more people come 'online' and actively search for what they want.

    However, i was both surprised and pleased when B&O UK approached me last week with an interest in advertising here on BeoWorld - namely promoting new products, and namely the new BeoVision 8 - 40" LCD Television. Yes, you did read that correctly. Go on, read it again. LOL

    I immediately consulted the moderating team, and after plenty of debating we would like to now consult the most important people in the decision making process - YOU, the members.

    Before anyone shouts 'selling out', the one thing that is crucial is that we remain impartial, independent and true to our own values we have here on BeoWorld.  I can state on the record that Lars Flyvholm, CEO of B&O UK would not have it any other way, and is a real supporter of the site and would not want us to be anything but exactly as we are now. We have already agreed amongst the moderating team that any reviews we do will be honest, wether good or bad - and i don't see an issue with this, we have always 'shot from the hip' and will remain so.

    Exactly how (and if) B&O advertise, and where, is open to discussion - but i would initially suggest static banners, a review of the product in question, and of course a thread/news article.  In return for this i have suggested B&O donate prizes for the draw as opposed to financial remuneration. I am extremely pleased to say we are at the moment self sufficient thanks to our generous paying members, and i think any extra revenue should be channelled back to the people that support the site - i think that's fair?

    I'm really not completely clear which direction this could head in, but personally i support Bang & Olufsen as a company and i want them to succeed, as i'm sure we all do. Our relationship with B&O is improving all the time, and as time has gone by we have gone from 'unmentionable' in Struer to 'friends' in a relatively short space of time. We conduct ourselves well, we reflect the brands values and we don't mince our words when criticising - something i know B&O have acted upon when we have highlighted problems.

    If we can do something mutually beneficial to both Bang & Olufsen as a brand and also to BeoWorld, i can see no real harm - but as ever, i will be guided by the members and moderating team. Without the members, the site would be nothing - so your views count.

    This is really important, so please give me your honest and constructive thoughts.

    Many thanks

    Lee & The Moderating Team

    Smile

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 06-03-2009 1:51 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Personally I would have no problems with that, quite the opposite. One thing that would need attention though would be how to keep the distinction between Beoworld and B&O clear - even now, every once in a while, we seem to get an odd new poster who apparently thinks Beoworld is officially affiliated with the company.

    Technically, I'm for static banners. But there are quite many already - a rotational implementation might be nicer...

    -mika

  • 06-03-2009 2:09 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Gosh!  Answering this, is a lot harder than you would first think.
    There are so many pros and cons.
    I will ruminate a little before I make comment I think!Hmm

    Andy T.

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 06-03-2009 2:44 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I'm sure there are those that will object, personally I don't mind as long as their influence doesn't extend beyond supplying prizes and I mainatain the right to say "Bollocks" whenever I feel like itBig Smile

    I can imagine that they'd quite like to buy it lock, stock and barrel - this should be resisted at all costs.

    As long as the ground rules are established at the off and they accept they're just as likely to be critisised than applauded.

    Taking the BV8-40 as an example - if anyone searches the site now there will be links to the manufacturers site, along with pictures and some early reviews. All they will gain is to have a picture permanently on view in a (and I agree) rotating Banner Ad.

    If there is to be a review added then it should be from an independant source rather than B&O's marketing department.

    (Long term reviewers can be found at Puncher@Punchersville.com)

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 06-03-2009 2:44 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Lee, I'd say don't have any hesitation. It's only an advert. We all need the money ('we', as in all online retailers) and if people are prepared to pay, whatever the source, then let them.

    Beoworld is simply a discussion portal. Although our comments and thoughts are from individuals, it's all about B&O. They're hardly 'influencing' people, either way, from potential adverts.

    To be fair, I'd be really surprised if people - debating B&O and often reading about store closures and so on - would not want to do all they can to promote and encourage B&O sales.

  • 06-03-2009 2:48 PM In reply to

    • Tom
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Luxembourg
    • Posts 3,175
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    As long as B&O is nothing more than a regular advertiser on the site, I see no bad in the news. Where I am not really convinced at the moment is the way Beoworld is payed for the advertisment. I would prefer if they payed it like any other company, because otherwise, the site and the draw become some dependant from B&O, which is, as you said, not what is intended.

    Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. - Berthold Auerbach

  • 06-03-2009 2:55 PM In reply to

    • Ericvr6
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • The Netherlands
    • Posts 205
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Lee & The Moderating Team

    each morning I start my computor with beoworld

    I think I it a great leap forward for a enterprice to recognize the inportance of this site.

    the people from all over the world how give there opinion about B&O

    Pro en cons often about the price.... but also is it practical and technical advise to witch lives a longway

    from his dealer. New products review ect.

    So indipendence is major ,but sponsering is necessary ?

    your still the boss Lee

    greetings Eric

  • 06-03-2009 2:56 PM In reply to

    • Daniel
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Svinarp, Sweden
    • Posts 1,284
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I see no problem with that. Should be possible to place it with the other ads on the site. Mayby a frame around them with the text "Advertisement".

    Beovision LX5500, BeoCord V6000, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 3500, BeoLab 2000, BeoVox1, BeoCom 6000, Form1, LightControl 1

  • 06-03-2009 3:13 PM In reply to

    • h1npw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • A cricket ball throw from Trent Bridge
    • Posts 776
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I'm in the same boat as Andy....I need some time to weigh up the pros and cons of which there are many.

    Andy - it's enough to drive you onto the figs!!!!!! (I'm resisting too!)

    Will post at the weekend

    Cheers

    Nigel

  • 06-03-2009 3:17 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I think the banner would be quite harmless in the visual perspective as we have them already, of course too many at the same isnt good for this an information source rather than a market place.

    What comes to affecting opinions on reviews and discussion i'd say the things said here, being positive or negative, are very mature and constructive and  i'd like to think our "everyday reviews" should be respected rather than thought as a "threat". Let's just make it so that the spirit of the discussion stays within Beoworld.

     

    Cheers,

     

    Olli

     

  • 06-03-2009 3:18 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    h1npw:

    I'm in the same boat as Andy....I need some time to weigh up the pros and cons of which there are many.

    And what are the 'cons' exactly? Who are we to police advertising? We don't across our European B2B websites. It it were up to our forum members (and it isn't!), they'd ban all online advertising.

    I'd be personally very disappointed if people thought that valid paid-for advertising, from the company which is the sole reason for this site, couldn't advertise on the site.

  • 06-03-2009 3:30 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I think that is a good news and I am only half surprised.

    Since the creation of Beolounge, B&O does not have a community site where people can discuss, and it was very appearant that they decided to remove their discussion forum because they could not/did not want to compete with Beoworld. And now even better, they want to support us. Great.

    - Banners (static or flash, but silent and not intrusive) would obviously be a good option. The advert at the bottom of the page are never seen, so it I would suggest rotating banners at the top.

    - Having some of the monthly prizes donated by B&O is great, and for those prizes, in the prize section and in the prize thread, you can say "offered by B&O" and link to their site to the corresponding product page.

    - In the news articles, you can repeat their press releases or their annoucements, but quoted as such ("B&O has made the following announcement today....")

    I suggest you do not do product reviews as part of the deal (it does not mean you should not do product reviews at all). If the review is good there will be some Beoworlder that will say you've been bought and if the review is bad, B&O will be unhappy.

    I also strongly suggest you do not create paid-for threads as part of the deal. Let's say you create a thread about the BV8-40. Inevitably there will be some negative user comments, as there is always in an open discussion, and B&O will not like their advertised product directly associate with the criticism. 

    In other word, all the advertisement should be separated from the site content. And B&O and Beoworlders will be happier.

    p.

  • 06-03-2009 3:33 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I think it is very positive. We have obviously discussed this and the main issue is editorial independence. This is however an enthusiast site so we are on the whole very positive about B&O as are the vast majority of members. We do however realise that this site is only as good as its members and hence the reason for asking the opinion of the members about what would be an important decision. Clearly not everyone will have the same opinion - it would be very boring if they did (the scene from Life of Brian comes to mind - the crowd chanting 'We are All Individuals!) - but we are looking for the general feeling about this. I think we plan to give this a try if supported and see how it affects the site. I think it will be a huge benefit and I think we can act as a small conduit to B&O on the web. The views expressed on this site are only a very small percentage of the global B&O community but we are always growing and we do offer feedback, both positive and negative , which is always useful to any company.

    I think this move by B&O shows exactly how much the site has been rejuvenated by Lee and Keith and full credit must go to them for all their work.

  • 06-03-2009 3:36 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Good point Phil - DEFINITELY no General MIDI music!Laughing

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 06-03-2009 3:59 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    instead of paying for the advertising on this website, they ould use the money to somehow invent a technology that could read all the words here and somehow analyse them to their advantage(in product development).

     

    Come on be serious read the forums improve your products and we will buy them

  • 06-03-2009 4:03 PM In reply to

    • stefan
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • 200 miles from Struer
    • Posts 1,733
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I can`t see any problem. This is the place for B&O friends, so why shouldn`t Beo advertise here on the site? BTW I see it as a kind of compliment to Beoworld. So, Lee, go ahead....and congratulations!

    Or another idea: we could have a meeting in Struer and discuss it there........

    Stefan

  • 06-03-2009 4:49 PM In reply to

    • Luke
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-03-2009
    • Switzerland
    • Posts 286
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

     

    There are other advertisers here as well... that doesn't bother me. In fact I find it quite convenient. My only issue would be if they start advertising anything from that new tacky gold colour. Can we please put a ban on that Laughing

     

  • 06-03-2009 5:08 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Inevitable really and my opinion is that it is fantastic news, hats off to Lee, Peter and all the mods for the work done to date to turn the site from another forum into a forum which has set standards and continued to raise the bar.

    Lets not mince words, this is a strategic move by B&O to forge a relationship which it needs *trust* and can only help both B&O and Beoworld.

    I mentioned in another post that Beolounge was something that could be a lot better, why replicate or try to create something when it is on your doorstep? I do not think that at this particular moment in time, B&O needs to either control or manage a site which says yes to all its products and to moderate criticism.  Imagine being part of the process of new products? being asked about the direction of future products? Or even tweaking Beolounge and creating a link between the two could be a fantastic solution for all the problems it has unintentionally created.

    B&O has got some things very, very wrong, but clearly looks like to be moving in a new direction with a new approach to its future and I for one am excited by this.

    With regards to advertising, why not? It is very naive to think that a site like this can survive solely on the back of revenue generated by membership or through the sales of site related merchandise, anyone remember what it was like when the server would be down for days on end?

    Drinks

     

  • 06-03-2009 5:18 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I am dubious about this. I think it will start off quite well but over a period of time B&O will have its foot wedged well in the door and impartiality will be a thing of the past. Its ultimately about them wanting to manage and control BeoWorld more than they can at the moment. After all, this is a big customer base to have onboard. Once a financial contribution is made (as with shareholders) they will always have a card to play.

    It is tricky. Obviously this whole site revolves around B&O and our passion for their products so to not include them at some level may also be a mistake, but at what level are they included? That is the key question. Does the site actually need extra finances? I know some members make personal donations by choice. Other members support the site and prizes through their paid membership. What would this extra revenue go towards to improve the site, whether using existing membership funds if B&O now substitute the prizes, or direct advertising contributions from them?

    My suggestion would be for B&O to offer signifcant discounts to BeoWorld members who make future purchases from dealers. That would be an ideal way for them to financially contribute.

    My views may change but this is my initial first reaction having just read the thread.

    Simon. 

  • 06-03-2009 5:35 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    Sorry Moxxey - got to disagree with you here. I think paid up members of the site actually have more of a say in this than those that do not contribute, after all the simple fact is that the site probably would not be here were it not for the contributions received in membership fees. Feeling that I was 'legitimately' supporting the site was one of the motivating factors making me take a Silver membership after a brief hiatus as a Bronze member. Exactly how B&O's money comes in and under what terms should be something that paid members have a say in - very much akin to shareholders in a company having a say/vote each year at an AGM or extraordinary AGM. Sorry if that sounds divisive, but I think the analogy is clear, and I would personally be upset if it came to a vote and non-paying members' votes were weighted the same as those with Silver or Gold memberships.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 06-03-2009 5:37 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    The_Beonic_Man:

    I am dubious about this. I think it will start off quite well but over a period of time B&O will have its foot wedged well in the door and impartiality will be a thing of the past.

    It's called advertising Simon. It happens everywhere. We have B2B and B2C magazines and you could argue that any advertising would cause us, as a magazine team, to be less impartial as they are influencing us by paying the magazine money. Not at all and advertisers are well aware that they have NO influence or 'say' over user opinion. Indeed, I have a situation at the moment where some of our magazine readers claim that the software from our biggest commercial advertisers is a 'con'. It's quite embarrassing for us and the advertiser, but we just point out - rationally - that forums represent a very small part of the magazine readership and that it's only a handful of people with that opinion.

    What card(s) do they have to play? It's the board that holds the cards - they want to advertise with Beoworld. If they don't advertise, then the board continues as before. If they do advertise, they respect the board, user opinion and hope they can direct some of this interest to product purchasers.

    B&O should be able to run static adverts, a microsite and encourage reviews (which can be negative as well as positive). The only thing I don't think is that they - or any advertiser - should include adverts posing as thread titles.

  • 06-03-2009 5:37 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    I'm for it... It's not as though LG want to advertise here Stick out tongue (although hopefully this doesn't open the door to Samsung)

    Maybe it could be known as Beotising or Beovertising? Maybe they could provide Beovertorials?

    On a serious note, I don't believe accepting advertising for any form of renumeration will affect how Beoworlders use this site. I'm sure we will all still be willing to shoot from the hip. As long as any advertising or advertorials or forum posts by B&O are clearly marked as such so as not to create any confusion.

    The 'if you can't beat em, join em' approach shows how great this site really is, and is a testament to the founders and operators of Beoworld. I see it as the ultimate form of flattery!!

    Will there be some sort of cross-promotion to encourage new members to the site from the Bang & Olufsen site? Maybe a Beoworld flyer in every B&O product sold?

    The possibilities are endless.....

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 06-03-2009 5:53 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    In a magazine like Macworld, Apple and other printer, software and accessories brands do advertise.

    You could say that this could influence product reviews for example because a brand could threaten to withdraw their advertising if reviews are bad.

    In Beoworld's case, the content is created by us, the users, not the site's editor, so there isn't much risk to be influenced.

    I do not see any reason to panic. I do not it see as a way to control us, but as a way for them to put their message in front of the right persons.

     

  • 06-03-2009 6:02 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    PhilLondon:

    In a magazine like Macworld, Apple and other printer, software and accessories advertise.

    You could say that this could influence product reviews for example because a brand could threaten to withdraw their advertising if reviews are bad.

    I work in this market - for one of MacWorld's competitors - and I can categorically tell you that the editorial team has little input, influence or relationship with the sales team, who book the adverts and manage their account. I'm not saying that the advertiser might ask their sales contact to put forward their product for review, but the advertiser is under no illusion that advertising will influence the decision. Indeed, most reviews are done by external writers (who rate the product) it's rare that the editorial team will alter this score. The external writers have no idea who advertises in the magazine.

    Advertising is a risk. You advertise in the magazines that give you scope to reach your (potential) customer base and where you are confident that independent reviews will both hold up and boost your adverts. Adverts do sometimes follow good reviews, but that that's natural too. However, good reviews don't follow from advertising, whatever the doubts the general public may have in their mind. If it did, you'd get caught out sooner rather than later.

  • 06-03-2009 6:05 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: BeoWorld and B&O..

    As an afterthought - the sites finances and viability should never depend on B&O's contributions - anything they pay or donate should be distributed among the members, the site must always be financially secure without mother B&O's input.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

Page 1 of 5 (114 items) 1 2 3 4 5 Next >