I am trying to decide whether to keep or sell my BeoMaster 8000, BeoCord 9000 and BeoGram 8002.  If I decide to keep them, which speakers would best suit this system?  This would be a second system, so I do not want anything big.  Thanks for your advise.

I'd keep it, but you need a decent-sized room really to get any benefit from an amp with 150w p/c. Either MC120.2s or S120s would be a good match (i.e. the BM8000 won't fry them above 2.5). I use Beovox Pentas personally with mine, but they're not going to fit on a bookshelf I'm afraid. The MC/S 120s would though.

Hi there,

This is more a question for my own better understanding, but perhaps would assist Durr in the selection of the speakers too .....

My understanding is that the B8000 is rated at 150W at 4 ohm and 100W 8 ohm... now based on this the 8 ohm MC120 would be perfect as you suggest John. Also how about the CX100 (although limited sound quality I'm sure) could this also handle the BM8000 ? 

Now also what about some of the slightly earlier speakers such as the  S75 / M75 these had variable impedence 4 - 8 noted in the old catalogues they also give 2 ratings, RMS and Music load.... in the case of the above they are rated RMS 75 (not sure at what impedence)  and music loads of over 100W. So would these handle the BM8000 too? When I was looking for what became the BM6000 I have, I considered long and hard the BM8000 and one of the dealers I spoke with had suggested the above speakers could be matched as long as I didn't play at 'full volume'... So I'm interested to know if this would have been correct and workable option...

Thanks,

Laurence.

Unless you like it really, really loud, it's actually easier to damage your speakers with a smaller amplifier than with a more powerful one. Why? Well, when you reach the limit of your amplifier, it will distort a lot and this (clipping-)distortion contains a lot of nasty high harmonics with lots of energy and that can destroy the tweeters.

Remember that the actual sound level that a speaker produces at a certain volume setting of the amplifier does not correlate to the speakers watt rating. The watt power rating only tells you how much power the speaker can handle, not how loud it plays. What matters here is the speaker's sensitivy - how loud the speaker sounds at a certain input level (for example: 89 dB (at one meter's distance from the speaker) when fed with a 1 watt signal). This sensitivity does not correlate to the watt rating, instead it has to do with the speaker construction - bass reflex (ported) design vs closed box, impedance behaviour, crossover circuit and much more.

Impedance is also important - What you see in the specifications of a loudspeaker is its nominal impedance, but in the reality the impedance is different at different frequencies.

If you listen at "normal" sound levels, your amp outputs, let's say, 10-15 watts at most. A signal that a speaker with a 40 w rating can handle just as well as a 150 w speaker. However, if you crank the volume up real loud the 40 w speaker will be damaged earlier than the 150 w speaker. From the department of bad analogies: a frying pan with a teflon coating and a die-cast iron frying pan may both be used at low to medium temperatures. You may have to crank the the knob on the stove a bit more with one of the pans in order to reach the same frying result - that pan is less sensitive than the other, it is not as efficient. As long as the stove can handle this, no problem. Both pans may be able to give you excellent and similar results at modest temperatures. However, those moments when you need the pan to get really hot you have to take a look at the rating o the pan - the teflon pan will be damaged at a lower temperature than the die-cast pan. The important thing here is that this does not affect how it performs at moderate temperatures. It's kind of the same with speakers and watt ratings, but please don't place the speaker on the stove.

I have two bm8000s - one is used with cx50s (works fine, but of course I don't use this combo as a disco pa system :-) ), and one is used with a pair of s 45-2s. The latter system can go quite loud, no problem. I actually trust it more than I trust my bemoaster7000-m150 combination that I also have.

We should produce som kind of FAQ item for power-rating questions.

Agree completely with above. However I use mine with M100s and it is wonderful! Not many systems can drive really big speakers well and you have one that does. A good big one will beat a good small one any day! The big speakers will give you better bass response and also, if chosen correctly, more bass detail.

Hi Henrik,

Thanks for your detailed reply. Yes I think a FAQ page perhaps  about speaker / amp ratings / compatibility would be excellent idea especially for people such as myself that are less experience and technically minded.  Because I think what those less experience tend to do is think that we should match the amp to the speaker exactly eg. BM 8000 / M150 or BM6000 / S80 etc for instance ...

This lack of knowledge, held me back from trusting this dealers advice, he (in his own words of course) was a collector and enthusiast, and I'm sure was very experienced, but I opted for the trusted matching system I referred to above as I was unsure ... this in the end also affected my decision to get the 6000 over the 8000 as I didn't want to have the the large M150 / MS150 speakers in my living area (and of course the cost of shipping them) .... If I had known I could have used smaller rated (and dimensioned) speakers safely with the 8000 then the outcome may have been different  .... Not that I am disappointed with the 6000 of course, I love it ...

In your experience with the 8000 and the S45.2 when you say loud is it 50% of total volume scale? For instance at 30/35 or 50% of the volume on the 6000, this is really quite loud and by 40 has approached 'party volumes'... would this be comparable? I could not imagine going anywhere near maxing out ( at 60) the volume on my system.

Well, thanks again and I'm sure your input will be very helpful and enlightening to those considering putting together a system  ...

Laurence..

Well I use Beovox M150 with my Beomaster 8000 and they can handle the output at any volume.

Even though I got Beovox S120 last year I never thought they were that suitable for an 8000 as Dillen has given me a 2*192 in real speaker output power which he has measured while working on them.

The Beovox S80.2 is a little less but for my S peakers they go with a Beomaster 6000 and that's it.

As for Beovox S45-2 I would not use them with either Beomaster.

As for size there is not alot of difference between my S speakers and M150's. The MS150 is just taller but it's the same space they take.

S45-2s are safe with the BM6000 - they will take peak power of 75W so as long as you don't turn it up to 10 and leave it there, you will be fine.

There has to be a bit of sense used with these matters. As said above, most damage done to speakers is caused by little amplifiers distorting into speakers. Most music we listen to will use very little power - probably less than 3W. It is the transient peaks that you need the power for so you have plenty in reserve. This has always been a good point of B&O amplifiers. I use a Beomaster 4400 which has a peak power output of well over 100W per channel and use BBC LS3/5A speakers with it which is supposed to be limited to 25W. No problems at all and I know of plenty of people who use even more powerful amplifiers with them.

If you are concerned still, just get speakers with a protection circuit built in , though I think this is unnecessary.

Each to their own I suppose. The way I look at it is that the Beomaster 8000 was a top-of-the-line product that was meant to be used in large spaces and had to be capable of playing at high listening volumes without distortion if required. I have a large living room, and I like listening to music at high volumes on occasions, so I use Beovox Pentas. I could use MC120.2s, but I don't think they'd fill the space with sound as well as the Pentas. I'm sure MS150.2s would do the job nicely as well. Equally, I'm 100% certain that if I replaced my Pentas with some CX100s I would be extremely disappointed with the results. If I carted the whole lot upstairs and set it up in my home office, I'd probably be satisfied with the CX100s and think the Pentas were too much. 

If you're planning on using your BM8000 in a big space, get some big speakers as the manufacturer intended.

If you're planning on using your BM8000 in a small space, use some smaller speakers if a big sound is not required (or perhaps just get a smaller amp - what's the point in having all that power with no way of burning it?)

Hi Peter,

Thank you, this again I find very helpful, as I am still trying to better understand the concept that you don't necessarily have to match the amp power output with the speakers... and for most of us as you say, we probably generally only use our systems at much lower levels than they are capable of, in my case probably around 30% of its full potential... 

Hi John,

I do actually agree with you here, this was another reason why I opted not to get the 8000 as I felt it was too powerful for the space in which I was going to place it ... altho I very much liked the idea of the unit, being the flagship and also being considered one of the best amps B&O have ever made... so I still occasionally yearn for one, especially when I see someone in the forums have gotten one at a steal and are restoring it...

Thanks,

Laurence

The way I look at it, it has always been about keeping the system complete and original.

I do agree that the Beomaster 8000 needs the space not just in the sound but also where you put it as the SC80 stand is hard to find.

I do use volume 3.1 to 3.5 for the most part. The system fills the room with sound just fine. I do like the fact that there is more and I'm not maxing it out.

I did pay about 88£ for my Beomaster 8000 which was fair enough. The repairs were time consumming and in the end it came back to glory. A part of me is happy that I got this one as I do wonder what condition it would be today if I had not bought it. It was full of former disqualified service.

Anyway I'm moving to alot of space in 4-5 weeks and then I think I might go for Penta's for the 8000.

Hi Friedmett,

Yes I do agree trying to retain the systems as original setup as possible is a nice idea... I love the look of these systems  especially on a long low modern console, all in one line .... very elegant...

I've been thinking about getting a BG8002, but am still wondering if I'll really use it. The tape I would never use, so unless I can get someone to do a small project for me and convert it into maybe a blueray player, it would be a bit of a white elephant, and then its not really original is it?

I agree also that it nice to know your not playing at full capacity and maxing out the system... I find my 6000 quite effortless..

Good luck with your move, I'm also moving next month to a larger home so will be interested to see if this makes any difference to the perceived performance of the systems. But no plans to upgrade the speakers just yet!

Laurence.

PS. Henrik would still be interested in your experience with the 8000 and the S45.2s!

It does look good indeed.

My Beogram 8002 is used alot. Since it was serviced by Dillen in november 2007 it has played like new and thanks to the tangential setup taken good care of my records with no marks on them. I love using it and the sound it produces. In fact it keeps my love for records intact.

If you got no use for a Beocord 8000-9000 style then don't get one. They sound great though but if you do not plan on cassete tapes these days forget it. My Beocord 9000 came first and I had to have it. I always had cassetes around and I dig it very much. Lately I discovered how good it records and got 50 TDK MA-XG 60 tapes NOS so I'm sticking with it.

If you want Blue Ray buy a good Blue Ray player instead.

My experience with the S45-2 is that I will never use them with either 6000 or 8000 Beomaster. They sound great but I need a suitable Beomaster like a 2400 or 1900 as there is a Beogram 2200 involved. They were used with a Beocenter 2000 the last few years. At the moment they are taking a break along with the Beocenter.

I'm trying to find a low modern console for the Beogram 8002, Beomaster 8000 and Beocord 9000 so any ideas?

Hey Friedmett,

Yes the BG 8002 is still under consideration, but I'd have to buy a few records first, the only ones I have are at my parents home dating from the 70/80's... and the BC I would only like to get to complete the system 'look'... so we'll see.. I'm glad your able to enjoy all the componants.

I really don't think I would use the s45-2 with the 8000, but I'm just interested in the experience that Henrik has had, as like Peter he seems to be able to run lower power speakers with larger amps with out issue. In fact I would like to get a BM2400 with some S45-2, that would be nice.

As far as consoles go, it will really depend on your space and budget etc... but to give you some design ideas ...

As a very simple solution, I currently have mine on a very low modular drawer unit (takes DVD/CD) which is 2000 x 600 x 260Hmm finished in high gloss chocolate brown lacquer ... Poliform has a similar range Sintesi (to give you the idea of what I"m talking about).. www.poliform.it you can just buy the drawer units on their own... You could also use eg. a 2000 x 500 x 600Hmm cabinet and of course there are many options, such as very modern like Max also from Poliform, or a more casual modern such as this from B&B Italia ... http://www.spacefurniture.com.sg/wps/wcm/connect/Singapore/Collections/Product+Categories/Storage/B%26B+Italia_Maxalto/9630 . . Of course these are all higher priced units but will give you some ideas... in fact Space Furniture website is a good source to get ideas as it represents many brands, just click on each manufacturers websites. Also perhaps what would be really nice ( & since you are in Denmark you might be able to find one very reasonably) is a vintage modern Danish Rosewood Console, here is a really beautiful example..... http://vamptvintagedesign.com/detailimage.php/storage/481fcb1519635.jpg/10/10.

Or even simpler, you could just get a carpenter to build you a strong, 75mm thick x 450mm deep wall shelf as long as you like.......

Laurence

Oops, sorry - I've been away for a while :-)

I have the bm8000/s45-2 combo in my small bedroom, no need for larger loudspeakers there. Anyway, that combination works great in such a small room but I wouldn't use it in a large room. Previously I used a pair of vintage jbls in the bedroom and I've also tried my M150s, but they were both a bit too much for that room - the bass got overwhelming etc.

I really do get the point of combining a beosystem with the corresponding speakers from the same era, but I use all my systems everyday so nowadays I prefer to combine my systems with speakers that work well in the particular room where the speakers are placed. When I get my own house (instead of an apartment) I'll probably get more into the 'museum' idea again :-)

Hey Henrik,

No problem, thanks for coming back....

OK, so its really the size of the room and the volume limits that are associated with it, and that is why you chose to go with the smaller lower wattage speakers..... so i guess you never really turn it up very loud past 'easy listening'?.... 

I also just realised,  I think you posted some very nice photos of your various systems a while back.... couple of 8000s, a 6000 and 5x00? Is that right? Nice.

Laurence.

Yes, my main pont was that you don't have to match the power rating of the speakers with the output of the amplifier, it's more important to match the speakers with the room.

In my smallish bedroom, I get better result with the s45-2s but in my livingroom (35-40 square meters) the M150s are a better match. Unfortunately I use a bs7000 in the livingroom, and I'm not that keen on the soundquality (I'm thinking of using an external power amp and I'll re-cap the speakers soon) but the 7000 is beautiul and it's also the center of my A/V mcl2 system so I'm kind of stuck with it.

here are some photos from my old flat, taken when I was renovating so it's all a big mess :-) http://web.mac.com/henrik.lundstrom/iWeb/slask/beoworld.html

Hi Henrik,

Thanks, yes they were the photos I saw. Not a big mess at all.  Definitely a very nice collection ...... 

Thanks for all your feedback...

Laurence.